OMG I am playing with the new firefox toolbar and love it...I love the stalker toolbar.

Too busy correcting poor spelling!

That said, Kethuru wasn't the big bad ass he was back then that he was during the Vernal Wars (Illith was! At least until she got chopped in half...).

Also, it's important to remember that Avechna the Avenger was the melded essence of nine gods, all who were probably roughly equal in strength to your average Elder God. No such entity existed during the Elder Wars, as far as we know!

-coughmorgfyrecough-

Who's fault is that? Hmm? Hmm? Omnisicence is overrated isn't it?

How about

"Who stopped the mimic gods?"
"Who saved Elostian from Zenos?"
"Who created the edifices of power?"
"Who is it that four times each century need to save the world from Kethuru?"

A certain Kepheran princess has the correct idea.

No Super Saiyan Eventru? That would explain all the gold.

These are the exact same reasons that Kialkarkea is hostile to elder gods.

To each I respond:

Mortals were the reason mimics existed, it's their own fault.
Kalikai did - without her, Elostian would've been forever trapped in a battle of wills!
Edifices of Power are weak and rudimentary things - Elder Gods created far more powerful constructs (see: Xyl's Laboratory, the House of Xyl, any number of divine artifacts well beyond mortal capabilities)
Were mortals to fail, the Elder Gods could do so Themselves. See: Isune and the Seal of Nature following Viravain's breaking it.

And it's a prince, not a princess. Tsk.

Mortals still stopped the mimics. Mortals destroyed the Zenos-infested pieces of Elostian. The edifices are what led to the Soulless being sealed away. Without edifices, no basin. And what divine artifacts? Seems to me that half the things we find are Ascendant stuff, and the other being projects gone-horribly-wrong.

And to the last part? I'll believe it when I see it. One seal is certainly not nine.

Besides, everyone knows that the real hero through history is Lolly Pringle. That's a real David and Goliath story.

Xyl was badass. Just saying.

Just a couple points.

Mortals gave gods essence because they asked for it. Mimics showed up because the divine were getting too much essence. Is it the fault of the bartender, or the alcoholic?
Edifices of Power made mortals into gods, which made Vernals, which sealed off the soulless, something the Elders failed to do. The results speak for themselves.

Yes.

Trillillial and Xyl were adorable together, too.

Most mortals are sharded Gods themselves. In theory, each race could still maintain a sort of subconscious "hive mind" dictated by the residual essence and goals of Igaso, Xyl, Trillillial, Bollikin, Tae, etc...

With the addition of Vernal Ascendancy, mortality could be seen as the next evolution of the immortals themselves! After all, an individual race with a few Ascendants could certainly challenge an Elder God.

These crazy ideas should be explored IC, though

Sure, but the Vernal Gods never 'destroyed' Soulless, something Elder Gods did do (probably quite a lot). The Elder Gods also had a lot more Soulless to contend with than the Vernals did - the Elder Gods also wiped out the Soulless entirely in a single assault. There's never been any record of the Vernal Gods accomplishing it with even a single Soulless - nonetheless the entire collective incoming force. Of course, they reformed right afterwards, but that's unimportant! At various points the Elder Gods created pretty massive constructs (the great trees, Maeve, the domothean spires that held off all but the greatest of soulless) that you never hear Vernal Gods having achieved.

And you've never found an Ascendant artifact. If you have, it'll reset within an hour or so anyways. I imagine you mean Vernal - which yes, you probably are far more likely to find Vernal Artifacts than Elder. Things happen over countless aeons of time!

Really, the gloating of 'Vernal Gods sealed off the Soulless!' is generally thin to me - sure a couple've been trapped here and there, but Elder Gods achieved much the same at various points (Keph and Illith, for example). Using Kethuru as an argument is pretty poor, given that it required the essence of nine very powerful Vernal Gods to achieve, and only one Vernal God ever thought of it - and it was a pretty last-resort effort. It was a 'we're going to die anyways' sort of thing, I imagine. Desperation and desperate measures, and all that.

Besides, once they became Vernal Gods, they became Gods, much as Elder Gods. They're on our team then!

(Really, it's just a silly argument. Honestly, things could/should be different - there's an argument to be had that the Elder Gods could come up with some means to reinforce the Seals and prevent them from weakening, reinforce the Soulless prisons and come down and slaughter anything that they dislike en masse, but that would all make for a pretty boring game. Events would become less 'events' and more like 'performances', and I can't see that being a particularly enjoyable aspect of gameplay! Am I wrong? Would you rather see the Elder Gods just ride around on their pwnies and squash all this silly 'lulz mortals < gods'? Of course not!)

(And as an edit/aside, Isune restored a shattered seal. If a seal actually shattered, I'm skeptical raising a true ascendant would actually repair it!)

There ultimately comes a point where a mortal can step back and analyze Divine devotion as what it is - a symbiotic relationship at best that arguably benefits both parties involved. On one hand, you have Divine powers and wisdom. On the other, there are more individuals that help fuel the other side's power and enact Their will on the Basin on a more subtle level.

Given the boundaries of in-game mechanics, we -could- take on some (ok, more like singular) Elders with enough players. We managed to shake off various mobs of the Elder Flu Duplicates - which while they may have been a fraction of the Elder's power, the fact that the Elders were at their most vulnerable during that event (Lisaera and others barely managing to physically manifest themselves anymore) helps highlight the whole 'World's dead, we're all stuck in the Basin, you might as well play nicely (with mortals)' thing, since they could very well have been left to die.

Granted, if they did die off, then we'd have to deal with their soulless duplicates...

I was planning on leading into a point of 'Divine should at least -try- to earn mortal respect, instead of demand it' but I lost the pieces I'd build the tracks with, or some similar analogy. This idea works for some gods more than others, since some feel obligated to crap rainbows and sparkles at their slightest movements, while others are more in the background. I guess in-game we're all totally free to disagree on the matter, especially if you're the one playing the Elder!

Weren't the handful of remaining Soulless during the Vernal Wars much stronger then they were in the Elder Wars from eating each other and a bunch of elders and countless mortals?

EDIT: Aside from Illith, I suppose. She was still probably stronger then she was for the majority of the Elder Wars after getting cut in two.

"The House of Xyl" always makes me wonder if they served jalapeño poppers there. (Because they probably didn't serve hot wings.) The reason the Elder Gods are called Elder is because they can remember the time John Coltrane played a set there, in person.

Has a sick obsession with tekteks. Hahah.

We don't deserve their respect. They run the world and have the power to shrub each and every one of us. Be grateful they don't meddle more into the affairs of mortals. Without the oversight of the Powers of the Iron Realms, they would exert their tyrannical and capricious will over us and make this place a generally crappy place to live.

I sometimes want to remind Terentia that without mortals she would probably still be on Celestia in that stasis bubble, or worse consumed by Morgfyre .

Anyway I always considered most Elder Gods to be juvenile and arrogant (like the Olympic gods). And considered that the reason why they lost the fight against the soulless. While the vernal gods were more humbled, and more desperate.

ICly Anisu's opinion is though that the basin is still there -despite- Elders who continiousy mess up