Shaddus2010-08-23 19:18:13
Better yet, make distort force bodysnap to snap the body to the dreamform, not the other way around >.>
Anisu2010-08-23 19:21:51
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Aug 23 2010, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Better yet, make distort force bodysnap to snap the body to the dreamform, not the other way around >.>
That would severely limit dreamweaving I think. Besides dreamweavers would just taunt the org every hour to force them to use the power to distort, something the org will feel more then the death of a player.
Kaalak2010-08-23 19:32:58
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Aug 23 2010, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's the whole skill, since you can't use Indigo/Chockmah to see them or Violet/Kether to hurt them (most of the time). If anyone has details enough to reliably reproduce this scenario, we can get it fixed and all will be well again!
Those two things are bugs. Violet/Kether not hitting a dreamweaver is NOT WAI and I do not know of any mechanism through trans dreamweaving to dodge Violet/Kether. If you didn't hit the weaver then they aren't in the room, in which case you've accomplished the goal of driving them off.
Let me explain something very very basic about dreamweavers. ANY ACTION A DREAMWEAVER TAKES IS LIMITED BY WILLPOWER. Meaning, the longer the weaver is in dreambody, the more willpower drain they take. If the weaver uses any dreamweaving skill in dreambody that ALSO costs willpower. Meaning a dreamweaver has about five minutes or so in dreambody to get to the target and do something which may or may not be effective, then sit in a rocking chair for a couple hours to recoup the willpowerloss.
The only real benefit the weaver has is the element of surprise and if you know what you are doing, you can frustrate a weaver off with certain defenses and behaviors.
If the bitching comes from 'omg teh weaver is invisible and I don't know what to do' then quite frankly STFU and practice with a friendly weaver to figure out the counters.
Eventru2010-08-23 19:34:10
There is a long standing, very difficult to track, very annoying bug in very complicated code that causes Dreamweavers to be untouchable. That is their complaint.
Xavius2010-08-23 19:36:37
QUOTE (Kaalak @ Aug 23 2010, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those two things are bugs.
...
If the bitching comes from 'omg teh weaver is invisible and I don't know what to do' then quite frankly STFU and practice with a friendly weaver to figure out the counters.
...
If the bitching comes from 'omg teh weaver is invisible and I don't know what to do' then quite frankly STFU and practice with a friendly weaver to figure out the counters.
...I don't think you understand.
Everyone here is complaining about the dreamweaving bugs. You're talking about how dreamweaving is supposed to work. We all know how it's supposed to work. It doesn't work. I don't think dreamweaving has ever been bug free, but this particular one is rather vicious.
Go stop crying now. No one is trying to nerf you, unless you're traipsing around like the bug doesn't exist.
Unknown2010-08-23 19:37:27
Sylphas2010-08-23 19:40:15
QUOTE (Kaalak @ Aug 23 2010, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those two things are bugs. Violet/Kether not hitting a dreamweaver is NOT WAI and I do not know of any mechanism through trans dreamweaving to dodge Violet/Kether. If you didn't hit the weaver then they aren't in the room, in which case you've accomplished the goal of driving them off.
Let me explain something very very basic about dreamweavers. ANY ACTION A DREAMWEAVER TAKES IS LIMITED BY WILLPOWER. Meaning, the longer the weaver is in dreambody, the more willpower drain they take. If the weaver uses any dreamweaving skill in dreambody that ALSO costs willpower. Meaning a dreamweaver has about five minutes or so in dreambody to get to the target and do something which may or may not be effective, then sit in a rocking chair for a couple hours to recoup the willpowerloss.
The only real benefit the weaver has is the element of surprise and if you know what you are doing, you can frustrate a weaver off with certain defenses and behaviors.
If the bitching comes from 'omg teh weaver is invisible and I don't know what to do' then quite frankly STFU and practice with a friendly weaver to figure out the counters.
Let me explain something very very basic about dreamweavers. ANY ACTION A DREAMWEAVER TAKES IS LIMITED BY WILLPOWER. Meaning, the longer the weaver is in dreambody, the more willpower drain they take. If the weaver uses any dreamweaving skill in dreambody that ALSO costs willpower. Meaning a dreamweaver has about five minutes or so in dreambody to get to the target and do something which may or may not be effective, then sit in a rocking chair for a couple hours to recoup the willpowerloss.
The only real benefit the weaver has is the element of surprise and if you know what you are doing, you can frustrate a weaver off with certain defenses and behaviors.
If the bitching comes from 'omg teh weaver is invisible and I don't know what to do' then quite frankly STFU and practice with a friendly weaver to figure out the counters.
We know all of this. Many of us have also had Dreamweaving to trans. Of course those two things are bugs. That's what we're complaining about. I've yet to see anyone with a decent system, or anyone with decent playtime and common sense die to a dreamweaver. I don't think Lendren is bitching because he was ganked by an invisible man. Lowbies are really the only people a dreamweaver CAN kill in dreamform. Doing so is blatantly griefing. Doing so while bugs exist that make you invincible and invisible is the nearest thing to outright cheating I've ever heard of in this game.
Kaalak2010-08-23 19:43:16
QUOTE (Xavius @ Aug 23 2010, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...I don't think you understand.
Everyone here is complaining about the dreamweaving bugs.
Everyone here is complaining about the dreamweaving bugs.
Hm.
QUOTE
Better yet, make distort force bodysnap to snap the body to the dreamform, not the other way around >.>
QUOTE
Another issue with dreamweaving is you can have your body in absolute safety, making monoliths/nexii places where you can not go in to dreamform will not fix this as they will just go to a manse and link to follow someone out. And even if they are in a non monolithed room in their org (still summon protection from outside the org), defenders shouldn't have to raid another org to kill a dreamweaver at their own nexus.
I always found there should be a method to hinder a dreamweaver with web like abilities. And also if they don't do so already have monoliths and distort prevent bodysnap.
I always found there should be a method to hinder a dreamweaver with web like abilities. And also if they don't do so already have monoliths and distort prevent bodysnap.
Clearly Xavius. I missed the articulate discussion of dreamweaving bugs in the histrionics.
The skillset is bugged. Then the bug needs to be fixed. P simple (if annoyingly complicated for Sior
QUOTE (Xavius @ Aug 23 2010, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Go stop crying now. No one is trying to nerf you, unless you're traipsing around like the bug doesn't exist.
4/10 attempt at Trolling. *wink*
Gregori2010-08-23 19:47:58
QUOTE (Kaalak @ Aug 23 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
4/10 attempt at Trolling. *wink*
Nah I only give you a 2 out of 10 for trolling without having a clue what you were trolling. it would of been 1 out of 10, but your histrionics gave you an extra point.
Xavius2010-08-23 19:48:22
QUOTE (Gregori @ Aug 23 2010, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Still can't hit a dreamweaved person and they still (ab)use that fact?
Edit:: cause yanno they have "no way of telling if that bug still exists or not" <- actual quote
Edit:: cause yanno they have "no way of telling if that bug still exists or not" <- actual quote
QUOTE (Lendren @ Aug 23 2010, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The only thing more ridiculous than an unstoppable kill at the nexus on someone too young to even have a sip reflex and who never attacked anyone, is the idiot who does it.
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Aug 23 2010, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's the whole skill, since you can't use Indigo/Chockmah to see them or Violet/Kether to hurt them (most of the time). If anyone has details enough to reliably reproduce this scenario, we can get it fixed and all will be well again!
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Aug 23 2010, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It'd be just easier to recode Dreamweaving into what old ecology transmigration used to be: When you go into dreamform, make your mortal body a simple mob that people can bash, and if they do, you die. That way, the problem with Rapture freaking out about two objects of the same ID (or whatever it is Roark said the problem was) does not happen at all. To balance it out, make it impossible to go into dreamform at nexii or places with a monolith sigil or something.
QUOTE (Lendren @ Aug 23 2010, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not only that, but indigo/chockmah doesn't show them. Unless you already know who the culprit is likely to be, you can't even tell who's doing it until the deathsight. If you do know, you can try to violet/kether, but you just get the generic "he's not here" message. Meanwhile the lowbie's dying while he tries to figure out how to cure an affliction (he doesn't actually have one, all he can see is he's suddenly taking damage), and you can sprinkle salt around him but the attack just ignores it.
Yes, Kaalak. Apparently, you did miss it.
Eventru2010-08-23 19:50:48
Alright, alright. Enough with the tit-for-tat. Back on topic or pick a new one. Kaalak was obviously misunderstanding what was going on, let us not dwell.
Unknown2010-08-23 19:55:44
QUOTE (Anisu @ Aug 23 2010, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Problems I see with changing to a mob is that you can nolonger teleport/summon them. Killing a dreamweaver with violet/kether is a mather of having a lot of people doing it and so in extremely ineffective either way when someone goes to an enemy nexus to kill a novice so killing their body is the only way you can actually deal with it.
Another issue with dreamweaving is you can have your body in absolute safety, making monoliths/nexii places where you can not go in to dreamform will not fix this as they will just go to a manse and link to follow someone out. And even if they are in a non monolithed room in their org (still summon protection from outside the org), defenders shouldn't have to raid another org to kill a dreamweaver at their own nexus.
I always found there should be a method to hinder a dreamweaver with web like abilities. And also if they don't do so already have monoliths and distort prevent bodysnap.
Another issue with dreamweaving is you can have your body in absolute safety, making monoliths/nexii places where you can not go in to dreamform will not fix this as they will just go to a manse and link to follow someone out. And even if they are in a non monolithed room in their org (still summon protection from outside the org), defenders shouldn't have to raid another org to kill a dreamweaver at their own nexus.
I always found there should be a method to hinder a dreamweaver with web like abilities. And also if they don't do so already have monoliths and distort prevent bodysnap.
There's nothing wrong with having to hoof it to org territory to kill the dreamweaver. If it really was a problem, and it was worth doing, I'm sure Chockmah/Indigo can be expanded to tell you where their dreambody-mob is too.
And if they link/follow someone out, this can already happen now, so while there might not be much difference, it makes the dreamweaver have to bug someone to do their griefing. The monolith/nexus thing is just something I said to make them unable to use nexii/guildhalls for their attacking, since you won't be able to port/summon/walk to them as a mob anymore.
Edit: And really, tbh, if this were to happen, it's better to be able to balance things around a process -not riddled- with bugs.
Lendren2010-08-23 19:57:40
Well, maybe it's just me, but "WAI" isn't in my dictionary, for one thing. Yeah, I'm 'lamezorz', or whatever you young kids are calling it during Monday afternoon, for not knowing today's designated initialism.
This complaint's not really about the bug -- we've had that for ages; it's about people using the skill on harmless bystander lowbies, knowing they'd probably get toasted if not for the bug, and doing it anyway. And anyone who considers that behavior tolerable.
This complaint's not really about the bug -- we've had that for ages; it's about people using the skill on harmless bystander lowbies, knowing they'd probably get toasted if not for the bug, and doing it anyway. And anyone who considers that behavior tolerable.
Eventru2010-08-23 19:57:49
As an aside, knowing very little about dreamweaving, things like teleporting to the mob-body would be doable via code.
Kaalak2010-08-23 19:59:17
Oh. WAI is Working As Intended. Not WAI is a bug.
I'm slipping into shorthand here.
I'm slipping into shorthand here.
Furien2010-08-23 20:06:25
Avenger is fine, though the quirk of 'being in enemy territory causes you to forfeit all rights to self-defense' thing is annoying.
But if we start differentiating between NPC and Org enemy territories, it'd probably be fixed handily.
But if we start differentiating between NPC and Org enemy territories, it'd probably be fixed handily.
Gregori2010-08-23 20:09:43
QUOTE (Furien @ Aug 23 2010, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Avenger is fine, though the quirk of 'being in enemy territory causes you to forfeit all rights to self-defense' thing is annoying.
But if we start differentiating between NPC and Org enemy territories, it'd probably be fixed handily.
But if we start differentiating between NPC and Org enemy territories, it'd probably be fixed handily.
Yeah I never understood how if I am attacked in enemy territory and I defend myself I become the aggressor.
Kiradawea2010-08-23 20:36:59
Okay. I'm confused now. I keep being told that the sceptre disappearing after it is completed in the Well of Souls is a bug, but when bugged, I am told that it isn't a bug. Which is it?
Gregori2010-08-23 20:38:52
If I recall, and it has been years snce I did it, it vanishes when completed because it goes to Maeve. There may have been changes since that time though and it does something different now. If it's the rose bush quest you are doing.
Kiradawea2010-08-23 20:51:22
Maeve never seemed to act any different afterwards though? Should she? And the rosebush. Whenever I try to do that quest, I only get a message that I am drowning the Rose bush. Is there something I am missing?