You're totally right. My ideas are quick pulled out of my behind suggestions. The big overall picture I want is that castes don't have to be connected to city ranks in any way. Hell, you could come up with ways that someone could join Hallifax, get CR6, and RP out being one of the indentured servants if they really want to.

Edit: And I'm probably shutting up as I'm posting too much on this. I just this Hallifax is a farking awesome city. The possibilities are endless in the ways they could RP out castes and I just keep thinking they picked the plainest way and a way that has, like it or not, insulted some people and I think held them back a bit.

We're working on a way to reward people who do combat/defense/powergathering but have already hit the CR4 mark, probably with credits, the way Glom did with their CR6 people, if anyone remembers how that works.

It's also nice to be starting from a fresh slate, so no one has to :censor: any bricks. If it doesn't work in the long run, it'll get changed, but its working well enough so far.

The italicized are not problems with the system as much as problems with the people enforcing them, which you'll get anywhere. The solution is to talk to someone who is reasonable; I can't possibly imagine who that could be.

Also, if any other org had RP going back to the Taint Wars histories, played out through denizens and the very layout of the city itself, the situation you propose would make more sense, though I do point out that this would depend on your definition of 'active people in the ,' i.e. is this open to anyone who makes an effort, or just people who are combat gods? As it is, though, no other city has such a thing. The closest is Magnagora, which as we've seen isn't so much analogous as merely thematically similar.

thats the point: its not working. Have you ever read "the time machine"? you're a city full of eloi worshipping how smart and great you are, while the morlocks are prowling around below and getting hungry.


try a simple test. make a city post inviting all citizens who believe they have done something deserving guild or city recognition but havent recieved it, to message their gm. sit back, wait fore the flood to end, and read. you'll be surprised at what you have missed.

Several GMs and the CL have said that repeatedly, including specifically targetting combatants/defenders. If I made the post, the only responses would be from the alts of people trolling the forums about how oppressed they are in Hallifax and the usual powermongers.

No, I haven't read The Time Machine. Who is it by and is it any good?

H.G. Wells. And it is a Science Fiction classic. I have not read it in a long time, I couldn't tell you how it looks compared to stuff today. But it is worth the read.

I don't really have a stake in this, so take it with a grain of salt (although I've made a few Hallifax alts to try the place out, but that's as far as it went).

I find it interesting that Hallifax will hold on to the CR 4 / CR 6 thing - which people are complaining is onerous and annoying for some players - because it's consistent with the city's RP. But when it's suggested they actually RP their RP, this is seen as way too onerous and annoying for some players.

While Othero's shoot from the hip suggestions might not be ideal, I think his basic observation is dead on. Having a city rank limit is not RP. The only reason to cling to it is to have a crutch to compensate for a lack of actual culture and RP around the caste principle.

The combatants aren't complaining about Hallifax's caste RP. They're complaining about being denied revolt abilities. If that really is the sine qua non of Hallifax culture, then you've got some issues that need resolving.

As it stands, I'm CR4 without having been favoured once for fighting or doing anything scientific/artistic for the city. Well I got favoured for standing at a villager and shouting 'Open' over CT and diverting/debating maybe twice, but that's it with regards a 'conflict' favour.

Elostian is right when he says favours are given out freely. I've seen favours for power contributions, winning quizzes over CT, producing designs for cartels, serving in a ministry, being an actor in a play, and more. All of which being easy to do.

Part of the problem I think, is that people receive several easy favours when new in the city. Then when they do defend or whatever, they may already be at CR4 and so be ineligible under the current system, and get a "Thank you, try again!" response.

I would also agree with Othero, that it is up to the player-base to enforce and RP the caste system, rather than relying on a mechanical one. Don't know how many favours it takes to reach CR6, but perhaps a system where out of < X > favours needed to reach CR6, < Y > can be for fighting might work? The city could check, < Z >th time defending? Cityfavour or Power/Other perk. That way you still have to contribute in some other way to reach CR6, whether it be power donations or similar, but fighters aren't ineligible because of their existing rank.

All that said, is this really a big issue? Maybe I'm just not seeing it since I'm not a fighter but Hallifax's culture is the most appealing thing about it to me, and I would hate for it to lose part of what makes it unique and turn into a generic org.

It seems to be a vocal minority, as are many things stemming from the forums.

Kind of a harsh dismissal. That doesn't instantly invalidate anything. It also doesn't validate a thing. Admittedly, vocal minorities are often wrong. Try not to use that as an excuse for any criticism, though. There's a lot of constructive criticism going on here, it's incredibly silly to brush it off as a couple of people being uppity.

I was responding directly to an expression of shock that this was "this big an issue." The answer is that it's not, really.

There are people in Hallifax who make an effort to throw their favour around as often as they can. I am one of them. But keep in mind that nobody's going to get favoured if nobody gets recommended for a favour, by themselves or by someone else. It is pathetically easy to get cityfavours in Hallifax, even if you just want them under the art/science categories. Hell, writing a mediocre 25-line poem would get you one under the current library contest.

seems like when that minority sent your city leader a letter about it, asking for recognition, he smirked and threw it into the matrix.

My character's RP would prevent her from doing that. As a commoner, she rarely spoke unless directly spoken to, even when she really wanted to. If no one noticed her contributions, they must not have been good enough. There is no written guideline to let the citizens know what is considered a significant contribution. I make a circuit of the mountains everytime I log in, and it wasn't until I mentioned this in passing that I got favoured for it.

(because there's no way to really see when you're donating commodities unless someone is standing there when you're doing it or if you mention it Quiet, unassuming characters who never like to say anything will be favoured less often. This is just an unfortunate truth.)

As for Arte, I will say only that if you'd talk to someone not currently extremely unpopular, you might find that things are not as they seem.

Ain't that the truth. I've only ever got one city favour in Hallifax.

Alright. This conversation is coming to an end.

Carry it out in-game.

You stand before a rushing waterfall, great torrents of white-frothed rapids pouring from above. Smiling to yourself, you turn your head to see a lyrebird perched on your shoulder. Ushering it along, you gesture toward the falls with your free hand. Chirping a bright melody, it flies from your shoulder to circle in the air before the falls, its voice carrying high into the mountains above. A slow rumbling sounds from behind the falls, and the lyrebird, satisfied, flies away, offering you a parting chirp.

^Made me happy.

whoa, is that a lyreth dream?

I really need to work on my warrior offense

I want to make an Alt, but when I try, I start to miss having my shinies on Kial.