Was the report even finalized yet before drama was started over it? Thought it was up for awhile before. If nobody had anything decent to suggest for moonies instead, don't really see what the problem was, envoys doing reports for other guilds isn't that uncommon.

Here's the breakdown:

Sarrasri asked for advice for her report and got zilch for feedback.

She decided to use her last minute report to adjust Transmology.

She is not in the Illuminati, and thus has no access to the skills themselves other than to fight alongside her alt's Gaudiguchian comrades who do have access.

Sylphas is upset that Sarrasri didn't focus on Serenwilde issues instead and thinks it's suspicious that Sarrasri is working on another organization's buffs.


... who else missed the part where envoys work on new skill sets all the time? Also, please refer to the bolded section. As a non-partisan member of this discussion, I don't really see what the big deal is.

I think the problem was her not telling anyone before she did it, from what I gather. And doing it right before the deadline, so even if someone had wanted to protest, they couldn't.

I don't think it's the fact that it's uncommon, it's that you're generally supposed to be unbiased as an Envoy and she hardly plays Sarrasri. When she's playing her Gaudiguch character more than Sarrasri, it's kind of hard not to accuse her of a certain degree of bias towards their skills.

That said, Sylphas. Your best bet is just explaining to your Patron that you need a more active Envoy. Problem solved.

I do agree, actually. Even though I know it would not be the only thing that a character who doesn't want to kill something might miss out on. But, there are non-novice achievements for influencing as well as hunting, so it seems unfair that there's no novice achievements that cover influencing.

Same.

The major issue is that the Gnome/Fink achievements give lessons, whereas the "Kill stuff" general achievements just give an XP boost. Lessons are a pretty harsh thing to miss out on if you don't want to kill gnomes.

But it wasn't at the deadline, that report was up for like, a week or more before she finalized it. =/

I was agreeing with you.

The answer is obviously to just add influence achievements for both, so we get more lessons!

Would it have mattered? If she only logs in a few days at a time to do reports, then there is a problem due to the fact that her guild can't really raise their concerns with her anyway outside of messages and the Moondancers should speak to their Patron to get a more active Envoy. I hardly see her respond to other reports either.

Edit: But again, as a guild leader, Sylphas. You have the ability to request a new Envoy.

Depends on how active Lisaera is. (I honestly don't know.) As far as I know, if the Patron is inactive then you're stuck with your Envoy unless another Divine can do it for you.

EDIT: Ignore me for not reading HELP ENVOY. Ask Maylea, I guess.

The quick and easy way to make Sylphas praise you instead of being annoyed:
1a. NEWS -> SECTION MOONDANCERS -> IC post requesting Envoy ideas.
or
1b. NEWS -> SECTION AN'TAITHE -> OOC post requesting Envoy ideas.

then

2a. NEWS -> SECTION MOONDANCERS -> IC post saying what you've submitted.
or
2b. NEWS -> SECTION AN'TAITHE -> OOC post saying what you've submitted.

I fully understand that it can be hard to phrase IC, even though that is the board with wider readership and thus preferable. This basic template holds for every action of every leadership position in the guild.

And we should have an active patron soon to talk to about several things with.

I'm not making a comment about how often Sarrasri is or isn't logged in, but this comment has raised a question that bothers me. Why is it that people seem to think you have to be logged in to communicate? Messages might be slow-going, but they are a form of communication. You send one to Bob, Bob replies with one to you, you send one back and so on. Heck, with the new Iron Realms site, you don't even have to be logged in to reply to messages (freaking awesome!!!! ). I send messages to people who never reply to me because, I dunno, they're waiting to talk to me in person or something. Well, if we play at different times or I can't log in for a few days, wouldn't it just be better to reply to the freakin message?

Anyway, that's my, um, not-rant for the day. Folks need to quit thinking that using messages isn't communicating or whatever it is they're thinking that keeps them from being willing to use them so they make me - or anyone - wait for days and weeks for a reply when I've seen them logged in so I know they read the darn thing.



Ahem. As you were.

Messages are not public and are thus not subject to debate. This is bad for brainstorming. Also, it helps the process if you answer your messages. Ignoring people you don't like undermines the process.

There's obviously a fair bit of tension over this issue. I think it's a great thing she's helping out the Illuminati with a much needed report. But I don't think Sylphas asking for better communication is such a horrible thing either. Nor do I think concern over an inactive envoy is any huge surprise.

Aaand I think that is the whole point, that quite a few people are missing. Sylphas would like more communication. I don't think its because she doesn't play often or put in a report for a non MD skill, its the fact that there was no active talking/communication about what was going up, or a request for idea. I mean you can ask for ideas over othe mediums than just the aethers. The news boards and messaging systems are there for a reason. Use 'em.

I always answer my messages.

Course, I realize you're talking about the actual issue under discussion and not my thinly veiled not-a-rant at the people who ignore my messages.

It's not just Sarrasri. The only reason I haven't poked Solanis about it much is that all he's done has been unenemy people, really, and that's on the logs and I'm not sure anyone would care for a list of people. He's on my list to nudge, though. I've had the same issue with other leaders as well. You get elected/appointed to serve your guild/commune/the game, which means you have to be accountable to them, which means they need to know what you're doing for them. If they know that, they can call you out on it or be happy as they choose.

Man I should have paid more attention to what I reply too. I thought we were taking about a gaudi envoy, but all this fuss is about Sarrasi?

Now I haven't done much combat on my moondancer alt but as far as I have seen there aren't any omg this must change now issues with moondancer skills and so I see no issue about lending a slot to a new guild. In fact I think it would have been nice if a few more of the older guilds would have done it (instead of having another envoy report about choke bleh).

Now I am sure we can all agree, Sarrasri included, it might have been more elegant had she posted on the moondancer ooc lrn how to fight clan thingy news that since nobody messaged her ideas she would like to use the slot for another guild.

I see no issues with foreign envoys trying to fix broken skills of other guilds. If you can envoy nerfs for other guilds you should also have the guts to envoy boosts for other guilds. Envoys are about balance, not about making your guild topdog.