I can't figure out the gnome quest. Hardest bit for the finks is probably at the end where you have to ignore some instructions.

I dislike that bards can't stack Bardic Presence & Netzach and actually get the benefits.

I'm inclined to say that they are based on silence because silence implies preservation of secrets and holding their sacred knowledge close to their chest. If they say nothing, they give nothing away with which to be used against them.. or.. something. I actually think it is nice. The Nekotai have bred their own themes and awesome roleplay that have almost nothing to do with the Ninjakari - or did, when I was one. Those were fun times.

Well, Nocht/Glomdoring didn't coin the concept of silence.

Which is exactly what Nocht's Order is all about. Moreso not speaking so that you don't expose your own weakness, but still essentially the same thing. I'm not feeling a sympatico correlation between Magnagora and it's patrons aside from a nifty mask skill. That isn't anyone's fault or anything. Just something I'm going to be pondering for a while.

Isn't the Ninjakari just a big cult to Illith or whatever, RP-wise?

^This

If the Illithoid quest cycle is done, there's a lot of RP down there in the Illith Temple near Cthoglogg, I recall a fair bit of it has to do with Illith's silence and madness.

Yeah, I know. I suppose I'm not really articulating my gripe clearly.
What I guess I'm trying to say is it'd be more interesting if the Ninjakari focused on the aspects of subterfuge(so original) and the impact of hidden action to make change in society. This falls in line with Fain more with his chess and masks fetish.



My RP so far has been sparse so I couldn't really say. Although Lydesne is part illithoid.

Sure they can... what do you mean?

If you use Bardic Presence and Netzach together, you still only get +2 Charisma. Bardic Presence gives +2 all by itself. The weight of Netzach isn't enough to push it to +3.

So by that train of thought, Ninjakari should be mad like Illith too? Meh.

Now you're just looking for excuses.

No, but their goals, lifestyle, and methods should all ultimately lead back to the ways of Illith.

That's because stat gains work off a weighted system:

CODE

    Attribute Increase / Buff Weight Needed
         +1                 1
         +2                 2-3
         +3                 4-5
         +4                 6-7
         +5                 8+

Netzach gives +1 weight, BardicPresence gives +2. You just don't get a full 2 points from those alone, unless you're already only 1 away from another increase before you apply them.

I realize why it happens. I just said I didn't like it.

Okay, it just seems odd for that alone to cause you to dislike the archetype. +3 isn't useless, in fact with the right setup it allows you to get exactly the +8 you need. So I'm kinda head-scratchin' over here, but to each her own.

Find yourself another buff and you get +3!

Not really. The illithoid taught Glomdoring Nekotai. Do the Nekotai revere Illith as much as Ninjakari? Probably not. Just something to think about.

By "probably not," you mean "definitely not".

The Nekotai would never worship Illith. For one, they only helped the Illithoid because the Kephera attacked them. For two, they don't worship a Soulless God like Magnagora pretty much does. I don't get it.. first you say that Nekotai and Ninjakari are too much alike.. but then to prove your point.. you give an example of how they are fundamentally different?

@Felicia > Where did I say I didn't like bards?