It doesn't help that one of the bigger 'convenience' tradeskill envoy reports is still only 'submitted'- report 291.

The problem is clearly laid out, it's not really a combat issue, but a major issue for forgers and monks; the envoys are all in agreement that it's a good idea.

It's been submitted since december, no information on if it's still coming or not.

Make all of the same class have the same skills. Quick way to balance.

Only thing then would be communes have druids and cities have mages. Better give us mages too, you can have druids.

Done and done. I should be the producer of this game.

I wrote that report, and I hope it eventually goes through, but I have to believe there's a pretty strong reason for it being sat on. Its not like they'd throw an uncontentious, argreed upon change under the bus out of capricious spite, after all.

I know there are balance concerns regarding the speed on monk weapons, and I recall there was some definite "wonkiness" regarding the staves/chains and artifact runes. So keeping a coincidental lid on the speed of monk weapons might be a way to keep those issues sort of passively contained until at some point the resources are available to address them properly... but that's pure speculation.

Of course, given infinite monkies working on infinite forges forging infinite jakaris, one of them is eventually going to pop out a 220, and Murphy's law says it will end up in the hands of a monk-narsrim or the like, and then the issue will be forced. Still, the probabilities involved in that probably make it a far more appealing solution to let thing sit than have every Tahetso and Ninjkari running around with 220s. (Of course, Shofangi and Nekotai are already far, far, far more likely to have a pair of 110s, but pobody's nerfect and all that.)

Sometimes (as with report 315) the lack of a provided reason makes one wonder, actually.

I think an idea for Dreamweaving would be actually to rewrite it. You could possibly kill two birds with one stone here. Druids need a more reliable tertiary, but historically the skill was used by Mages. You -could- keep the general premise the same (the manipulation of dreams, possession, etc.) without having the 'one person in two different places' issue that Rapture hates. Like Psionics, Dreamweaving could branch off into two seperate tertiaries for Mages and Druids. That way we don't have to worry about making one side too imbalanced because they'll both have their own tertiary to mesh with their own demesnes and skills. While I understand that the creation of a skillset is a large project and a very time-consuming one, I feel that a look at tertiary skills would be a step in a good direction for the health of both the Druid and Mage archetypes which, outside of Psionics, are severely lacking.

But seriously, there are finite categories of usefulness in Lusternia. I will attempt to list them here, with examples of abilities that fit each category (many will fit several categories, but I'll only list them once):

• useful for combatants (Tempo, Octave, demesnes)
• useful for bashers (Kingdom, Mercy, Acquisitio)
• useful for influencers (Netzach, thrones, Penumbra)
• convenient for traveling (MajorSixth, Teleport, Tesseract)
• enriching for role-players (Illusions cantrips, Dramatics Impersonation)
• resources for other trades (Magic Ink, most Herbs, powerstones)
• outlets for creativity (most Tailoring, Artisan, Jewelry, etc.)

Now here again, I'll use Tinkering as an example, primarily because it's what I've learned the most about. Let's look at EmeraldBox, which lessens (yes, lessens) the health regeneration (only the regeneration, mind you) of enemies in the same room:

• Is it useful for combatants? Not according to the market for it (there is none), or any combatant or fellow bard I've spoken to.
• Is it useful for bashers? No, it has absolutely no effect on denizens. It is solely meant for PK combat.
• Is it useful for influencers? No, it does nothing whatsoever for influencers.
• Is it convenient for traveling? No, it has no abilities that facilitiate traveling.
• Does it enrich role-playing? Not any more than Kingdom or Mercy, which is to say, not at all.
• Does it serve as a resource for other trade skills? No, it is an end product.
• Is it an outlet for creativity? No, it's just an ability. Actual music boxes are created by Artisans.

What is the problem here?

The problem is that the ability is intended exclusively for use in PK combat, but it's far too ineffective for anyone to bother with.

What is a potential solution?

Increase the effect of the ability so that it actually becomes useful, by (for example) halting health regeneration entirely, and if it takes equilibrium to use (I actually don't know firsthand), allow it to work on its own equilibrium, just like Scrolls of Healing and Sparkleberry. I guarantee EmeraldBox would see use after such changes, providing a very small advantage for a very small power (charge) cost.

If those small changes are too imbalanced, then EmeraldBox should be replaced with a different skill entirely. Leaving it useless is not reasonable. Even the horn that calls vermin is more useful than that, for both RP purposes and getting the vermin-killing achievements.



Anyway, I know I can come across in text sounding much more arrogant and disgruntled than I really am. I tend to get overexcited when issues like these crop up, but in actuality I'm not lividly drumming my heels on the floor in outrage, nor do I think my opinion is the only one that matters.

I was being quite serious.

As a tangent directed more toward the Admin than the players, I heard it mentioned that Dreamweaving is buggy because Rapture doesn't like it making a copy of you that exists elsewhere, but I'm wondering if it can't be handled like Nexus Guardians are, with movement done via a seperate command like SLEEPWALK .

Nexus guardians are two objects in one place, not one object in two places. It's not the command that's the issue at all.

My view exactly, only with regards to many other abilities spread out among every skillset.

As for full lists of specific ideas... this is why we have envoys, who are essentially screened by the admins for purposes of quality control. Where combat balance is an issue, I really would rather see the envoys involved. I'm suggesting/asking that a larger percentage of coder hours be put into envoy requests for a while, with the hopeful side effect of being able to go through envoy reports faster. And yes, I'd like to see the envoys look at tradeskills, because even those can be combat balance issues.

And even general skills. Like dramatics stories, yes, which comprises nearly a fifth of that skillset. Also like Combat having wasted abilities for warriors and monks, as they don't use shields. Also like Lipread, which doesn't read people's lips when the wind prevents them from talking. Also like half of Aethercraft. Example, who actually uses sluice? Lowmagic Blue has had a number of discussions. Indigo/Chockmah versus dreamweavers.

Also like the Magic skillset, which has been complained about before. For years. And only recently got changed.

And there are likely many others I'm not thinking of at the moment. So let's get the Envoys involved. Twenty four heads are better than one.

Most companies want feedback from their customers. Things they liked, things they didn't like, features and qualities in the product or service that the customer would like to see. Here's my feedback in the hopes of improving the game, and I'm trying to be as plain as day. I don't expect Lusternia to bend over backwards to specifically accommodate me, one player among many. But I don't think that I'm being vague as to what I'm asking.

I suppose I could say it again in a different way.

Hey, Lusternia. I like you. I think I might like you more if you weren't so buggy, had so many useless skills, had tradeskill imbalances. Now I know I'm just a client/customer and you guys are the producers/coders, so... how about it? Would you consider making some changes?



The feeling I'm getting here is.... I suggest to a restaurant that their food is good, but a bit greasy, and they tell me that I need to design a new stove for them, which they might take into consideration, maybe.

That's what I was proposing. When you DREAMWEAVE LEAVEBODY it creates a Dreambody object that is controlled via a seperate set of commands.

Though now that I think on it, that wouldn't address some of the issues, like the victim entering/leaving rooms, not being able to hear things said in the target room, and such...

Except you are, and I certainly sympathize with them there. Sluice isn't very good. What do you want it to do? Blue isn't very good. What do you want it to do? Indigo and violet work exactly as advertised. What's wrong with that?

What you're saying is, "Make the envoys fix it." Passing the buck is dumb, and the envoys do, in fact, use their slots. On another line, you say "The admin should be doing this of their own accord." Here again, passing the buck is dumb, and the admin don't really play anymore.

I'm channeling up all my envoy experience here, and I don't have a great, easy suggestion for blue that is likely to have broad appreciation. Blue has to do with the throat, which is symbolic of speech, so blue should make me able to hear tells at my location. Stealth users will object. I could take throat to mean eating, so blue should give me faster herb balance. 60% of the game will object, because there are already far more skills to screw over affliction classes than attrition classes. Having an idea is not the same as having a good idea, you know? This is why ideas are sometimes shot down (as evidenced by Lendren's link). It doesn't absolve people from the need to have good ideas, though.

Sluice is situationally useful. You can use it to get past shadowing ships and out of range, and it is easier to type in such dire moments than 'maneuver'.

Unless you write a script that overwrites your move aliases when you're shadowed!

PS: Sluice can be used to bypass multiple shockwaves. You're still shocked when you come out of it, but at least you only need to clear once. I really can't think of another use for it though.

In essence, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't:

1. Alter Blue so that it does A: Group X won't like it, can't be done.
2. Alter Blue so that it does B: Group Y won't like it, can't be done.
3. Change Blue entirely: Skill theme is based on chakras, can't be done.
4. Idea doesn't violate 1, 2, or 3: We don't deem this necessary/it's not a good idea.
5. It's the admins' job: They don't play anymore and are busy elsewhere.
6. It's the envoys' job: That's passing the buck, do it yourself.
7. Post in Ideas section: See items 1, 2, 3 and 4.

The above list could easily be applied to any contentious skill or ability.

The only recourse, then, is to spend hours brainstorming possible solutions for a "broken" skill or ability; run it by some fellow players for critique; do some additional brainstorming; try to ensure that items 1, 2 and 3 above aren't violated; ensure that your reasoning and proposed solution(s) are explained concisely and with bullet points; double-check for items 1, 2, and 3 again....

Then post your results here, and pray. (Even better, have an envoy send it, if they can spare the slot and think the idea is worthwhile.)

There's a 99% chance of missing a problem in the vein of items 1, 2 and/or 3, which will be pointed out less than two minutes after the thread/envoy is posted. If that hurdle is cleared (no small feat), the administration will probably invoke item 3. No amount of time and effort spent on proposed solutions can insure against these pitfalls.

Such a process is unreasonable in the extreme. It's our responsibility, but not actually our decision; the criteria for success are unknown, and the chance of failure is extraordinarily high. That the abilities in question will continue to suck because of that process is also unreasonable.

Knowing this, it's not "dumb" to "pass the buck" to the administration. Unlike players, administrators are insiders and implementors whose opinions carry a lot of weight. They converse freely with one another while maintaining the game, and no doubt have IRC channels and a hidden forum section in which to discuss these matters (or something along those lines).

Claiming it's "our responsibility" to fix these issues is a cop-out, under the circumstances... in my opinion, that is.

This one it appears was never even looked at. We'll give suggestions if you want them, but if you want someone to put in this much effort, at least give it some consideration.

I can do more revisions to this one, based off the suggestions in the thread. But only if people are interested.

While I don't object to the idea of taking some time to focus on certain skillsets, we are on a schedule and I've found we can end up getting a lot of nothing done if we wander too far off track. Right now the focus is on the new guardian guilds and the demigod/ascendant revamp (though we could put that on ice if people want). This means we could be tied up for the next several months. Keep in mind that the last time we focused on specific skillsets, we basically didn't do anything else for half a year! Not saying that's a bad thing, but it's not a project I'd jump into on a whim. I will also simply point out that there always seems to be people who think everything must grind to a halt to address this or that skillset. Again, I'm not saying that a case can't be made for almost any skillset, but only that from my perspective there has to be a pressing need (pressing being defined as drop everything and put all projects on hold until it gets done). However, that said, we may very well do some special reports focusing on certain skillsets later in the summer. There is one other (secret!) big project in the pipeline but I don't think that would tie all the coders up.

Regarding whether we listen to ideas posted on the forums or not, it depends on if they are unsolicited or solicited. When I start a thread asking for ideas, we definitely go through every idea posted. Unfortunately, unsolicited ideas are harder to incorporate for reasons above (gets us off track, etc.); however, we have been known on occasion to jump on an unsolicited idea. But, anyway, that's why we try to steer you to work through the envoys because we are committed to minimally doing that on a regular basis (and we've been known to take two reports some months).

One last comment on dreamweaving, I believe people are talking about a rare bug that causes your body to follow you. Roark has tried to track it down multiple times but we simply cannot reproduce the bug (if we can't see the bug, we can't fix it). I know he has not only put in a great many debugs to try to catch it, but he has also asked players on several occasions for any help in determining how to replicate the bug (but so far no one has been able to do so). In any event, I don't think that dreamweaving needs to be 'completely rewritten' (which would take Roark out of coding for months and probably lead to even more issues); rather, we will continue to monitor for what causes this rare bug and fix it at its source. If you really want to help, figure out how to replicate the bug and email roark with the details--that'll get it fixed lickity split!

Well, it'll be a long time for players to fix the bug since no Mage will, unless they're really bored and not a combatant, take Dreamweaving over Psionics. Plus, there are so few Druids today because of the class being rather boring and not really all that great that there arent many Dreamweaver combatants that I can think of besides Narynth and Lehki.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot Crek. But Crek is afraid of using the skillset because it is so damn buggy and he doesn't want to be issued. So, therein lies your problem.

I think it is less what you mentioned and more the fact that dreambodies keep randomly becoming invulnerable to out-of-phase attacks like violet and kether, making them literally impossible to deal with, and resulting in players not using the skillset so they don't get issued, like Nienla has stated. This is a bug that has reoccurred after several fixes, at least.

I find it rather rude that when we do make detail ideas and such we get shot down with just "No." Or "I don't like it. So no," and not really a reason why or like the bookbinding no one pokes at it when the ideas are made and people like them.

I pretty much agree with Eldanien and his first post but I doubt we will really see any changes as I am sure the game will just keep moving forward with new things like normal without poking at the older things.