BadLuck Balance stealing seems to stack with itself without a limit on how many times it can stack the balance loss. Below is an example of it occurring, which I had happen to me multiple times causing extremely long periods of balance loss.

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You hear whispers that make no sense but tickle the back of your mind and make you want to scream.
-
DIAGNOSE ASAP!!!
FOCUS MIND
A blush begins to creep up your neck and into your face as you come to the realisation that there are other people here!
7395h, 3757m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11567w elrkb<>-
You eat a wormwood stem.
7395h, 3757m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11567w elrkb<>-
A bag of salt that you didn't realize you were carrying splits open, showering the coarse granules everywhere. You curse as some get into your eyes and break your concentration.
7395h, 3757m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11567w elrkb<>-
You take a drink from a glowing diamond vial.
Your shyness has been cured. You can now face the world boldly.
7395h, 3757m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11567w elrkb<>-
FOCUS MIND
7395h, 3757m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11567w elrkb<>-
A bag of salt that you didn't realize you were carrying splits open, showering the coarse granules everywhere. You curse as some get into your eyes and break your concentration.
7395h, 3757m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11567w elrkb<>-
^^^^WATCH OUT! MY TARGET, Raikogen's, REBOUNDING IS UP!!!^^^^
7395h, 3757m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11567w elrkb<>-
FOCUS MIND
7395h, 3757m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11567w elrkb<>-
You attempt to regain your sanity.
You no longer have any temporary insanity.
7395h, 3570m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11492w elrkb<>-
You may drink another purgative or curing potion.
7395h, 3570m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11492w elrkb<>-
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
7395h, 3570m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11492w elrkb<>-
You eat kombu seaweed.
7395h, 3570m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11492w elrkb<>-
7395h, 3570m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11492w elrkb<>-FOCUS MIND

7395h, 3570m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11492w elrkb<>-
Thirteen sparrows suddenly fly in and swarm around you, breaking your concentration.
7395h, 3570m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11492w elrkb<>-
-----------------------
|REGAINED FOCUSBALANCE|
-----------------------
FOCUS MIND
7395h, 3570m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11492w elrkb<>-
You focus your mind intently on curing your mental maladies.
7395h, 3383m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11417w elrkb<>-MIGHT WANT TO DIAGNOSE
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
Raikogen IS DRINKING FROM A VIAL
-------------------------------------------------------
<><><><><><><><>Raikogen ate BUNCH OF PENNYROYAL<><><><><><><>
-------------------------------------------------------
7395h, 3383m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11417w elrkb<>-
Raikogen IS DRINKING FROM A VIAL
7395h, 3383m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11445w elrkb<>-
-----------------------
|REGAINED FOCUSBALANCE|
-----------------------
7395h, 3383m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11445w elrkb<>-
The night sky is clear, and the stars twinkle like diamonds.
7395h, 3383m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11445w elrkb<>-

Raikogen kneels onto one knee, demonstrating his humility and respect.
----Raikogen IS PRONE!!!-----
7395h, 3383m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11445w elrkb<>-
----Raikogen IS NO LONGER PRONE!!!-----
-------------------------------------------------------
<><><><><><><><>Raikogen ate BUNCH OF PENNYROYAL<><><><><><><>
-------------------------------------------------------
7395h, 3383m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11445w elrkb<>-TIME ECHOES WILL HIT RAIKOGEN IN 3 SECONDS!!!

7395h, 3383m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11445w elrkb<>-
You hear whispers that make no sense but tickle the back of your mind and make you want to scream.
-
DIAGNOSE ASAP!!!
FOCUS MIND
Hmmmm. Why must everything be so difficult to figure out?
7395h, 3383m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11445w elrkb<>-
You eat a wormwood stem.
My, you feel healthier than you have in years.
7395h, 3458m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11445w elrkb<>-
You attempt to regain your sanity.
You no longer have any temporary insanity.
7395h, 3271m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11370w elrkb<>-

Raikogen acknowledges the point with a grave nod of his head.
7395h, 3271m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11370w elrkb<>-FOCUS MIND

Your concentration is shattered as you trip over a mirror, which breaks into a thousand pieces.
7395h, 3271m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11370w elrkb<>-
-----------------------
|REGAINED FOCUSBALANCE|
-----------------------
FOCUS MIND
7395h, 3271m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11370w elrkb<>-
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
7395h, 3271m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11370w elrkb<>-
Your concentration is shattered as you trip over a mirror, which breaks into a thousand pieces.
7395h, 3271m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11370w elrkb<>-
You eat kombu seaweed.
7395h, 3271m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11370w elrkb<>-
FOCUS MIND
7395h, 3271m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11398w elrkb<>-
You focus your mind intently on curing your mental maladies.
7395h, 3084m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-MIGHT WANT TO DIAGNOSE
^^^^Raikogen'S REBOUNDING IS DOWN!!!^^^^
Raikogen razes your aura of rebounding with a steel inquisitor rapier.
SmokeFae One
7395h, 3084m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
You take a long drag off your pipe.
*** SMOKED PIPE ***
7395h, 3084m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
Raikogen IS SMOKING A PIPE CURE OR REBOUNDING
7395h, 3084m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
7395h, 3084m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
With a focused look, Raikogen strikes at you with a steel inquisitor rapier. Raikogen strikes your left arm, striking a major artery that splurts blood in all directions.
7312h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
-----------------------
|REGAINED FOCUSBALANCE|
-----------------------
7312h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
You take out some healing potion and quickly rub it on your arms.
The deep damage in your left arm completely heals.
7312h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
You bleed 54 health.
7258h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
You eat a yarrow sprig.
The flow of blood recedes as your left arm's main artery mends.
7258h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
With a focused look, Raikogen strikes at you with a steel inquisitor rapier. You are merely clipped on your left arm for a small cut.
A magic aura flares around you and completely absorbs the damage.
7258h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
You hear whispers that make no sense but tickle the back of your mind and make you want to scream.
-
DIAGNOSE ASAP!!!
FOCUS MIND
7258h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
7258h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
You yell, "I like cheese!"
7258h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
Your mind is whirling with thoughts - you cannot settle down to sleep.
7258h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
You eat a wormwood stem.
7258h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11323w elrkb<>-
FOCUS MIND
You flap your arms madly.
7258h, 3457m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11351w elrkb<>-
You attempt to regain your sanity.
You no longer have any temporary insanity.
7258h, 3270m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11276w elrkb<>-
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
7258h, 3270m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11276w elrkb<>-FOCUS MIND

You flap your arms madly.
7258h, 3270m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11276w elrkb<>-
You yell, "I like cheese!"
7258h, 3270m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11276w elrkb<>-
Thirteen sparrows suddenly fly in and swarm around you, breaking your concentration.
7258h, 3270m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11276w elrkb<>-
-----------------------
|REGAINED FOCUSBALANCE|
-----------------------
FOCUS MIND
7258h, 3270m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11276w elrkb<>-
You focus your mind intently on curing your mental maladies.
You aren't such a complete idiot anymore.
7258h, 3083m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
----------------------
|REGAINED HEALBALANCE|
----------------------
7258h, 3083m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
You eat a sparkleberry.
You feel your health, mana and ego replenished.
7395h, 3531m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
You eat kombu seaweed.
7395h, 3531m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
You take out some healing potion and quickly rub it on your arms.
The deep damage in your left arm completely heals.
7395h, 3531m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
Using your foresight, you completely avoid an attack by Raikogen.
7395h, 3531m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
----MY REBOUNDING IS UP----
7395h, 3531m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
^^^^WATCH OUT! MY TARGET, Raikogen's, REBOUNDING IS UP!!!^^^^
7395h, 3531m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
-----------------------
|REGAINED FOCUSBALANCE|
-----------------------
7395h, 3531m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
7395h, 3531m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11201w elrkb<>-
You hear whispers that make no sense but tickle the back of your mind and make you want to scream.
-
DIAGNOSE ASAP!!!
FOCUS MIND
7395h, 3606m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11229w elrkb<>-
You eat a wormwood stem.
7395h, 3606m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11229w elrkb<>-
Your concentration is shattered as you trip over a mirror, which breaks into a thousand pieces.
7395h, 3606m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11229w elrkb<>-
^^^^Raikogen'S REBOUNDING IS DOWN!!!^^^^
His eyes turning into starry orbs of pitch black, Raikogen gazes deep into your eyes. You feel his thoughts boring into your own, but you shake your head and cast him out.
-
The allheale burns your throat and makes your eyes water.
You are patient once again.
-
-
FOCUS MIND
The aftertaste of the berry turns sour.
-
You feel an invigorating energy rush through you.
-
-
-
You attempt to regain your sanity.
You no longer have any temporary insanity.
-
----------------------
|REGAINED HEALBALANCE|
----------------------
-
-
The potion heals and soothes you.
-
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
-
-
-FOCUS MIND

-
-----------------------
|REGAINED FOCUSBALANCE|
-----------------------
FOCUS MIND
-
You focus your mind intently on curing your mental maladies.
-
-
-
----------------------
|REGAINED SPARKBALANCE|
----------------------
-
-
-
You consider the following adventurers your allies:
-
-
The plant has no effect.
-
-
You feel your health, mana and ego replenished.
-
Your senses return to you as the blackout ends.
7395h, 4269m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11032w elrkb<>-
-----------------------
|REGAINED FOCUSBALANCE|
-----------------------
7395h, 4269m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11032w elrkb<>-
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
7395h, 4269m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11032w elrkb<>-
You eat kombu seaweed.
7395h, 4269m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11032w elrkb<>-
Your bout of bad luck has ended.
7395h, 4269m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11032w elrkb<>-
----------------------
|REGAINED HEALBALANCE|
----------------------
7395h, 4269m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11032w elrkb<>-
You hear whispers that make no sense but tickle the back of your mind and make you want to scream.
-
DIAGNOSE ASAP!!!
FOCUS MIND
7395h, 4269m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 11032w elrkb<>-
You attempt to regain your sanity.
You no longer have any temporary insanity.
7395h, 4082m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 10957w elrkb<>-
----------------------------
|REGAINED SMOKE/HERBBALANCE|
----------------------------
7395h, 4082m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 10957w elrkb<>-

You eat a wormwood stem.
7395h, 4082m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 10957w elrkb<>-
Raikogen razes your aura of rebounding with a steel inquisitor rapier.
SmokeFae One
7395h, 3895m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 10882w elrkb<>-
^^^^WATCH OUT! MY TARGET, Raikogen's, REBOUNDING IS UP!!!^^^^
7395h, 3895m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 10910w elrkb<>-
You take a long drag off your pipe.
*** SMOKED PIPE ***
7395h, 3895m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 10910w elrkb<>-
^^^^Raikogen'S REBOUNDING IS DOWN!!!^^^^
Raikogen razes your speed defence with a steel inquisitor rapier.
SLOW HIM DOWN WITH HEADSLAM!!!
7395h, 3895m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 10910w elrkb<>-
You take a drink from a moonstone vial.
7395h, 3895m, 5520e, 10p, 29400en, 10910w elrkb<>-
------------------
|REGAINED BALANCE|
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Here's a log of me just trying to stack the balance loss times on one another. After the initial bad luck hit I just spammed focus mind and I didn't regain balance from the second time bad luck started to steal my balance until well after the end of the log, which is a good 40 some odd seconds later.

Does badluck work with any command? That seems like it would be murder combined with a BM. Stack bleeding with pinlegs/rends, arteries, etc. and badluck and watch as they lose balance for the next minute when they clot.

It's an easy enough fix. Just make it so it can't balance loss stack. The same as they fixed 'wind'. I am surprised it was allowed to do so to begin with, probably just an oversight though, or they thought the chance of it hitting was low enough to not be an issue. Either way it's still an easy fix.

Its definitely not any command. All curing save for focus mind/body seems to be unimpacted. It also triggers on swings. Need some more testing.

It should not be confused with the low-procing eyesnare effect, which does not incur any sort of balance loss.

It should be noted that badluck is, structually wise, the "aeon" equivalent compared to aeonics, and so should have a strong impact. Perma-balance loss, if that is indeed what is happening, is too much, but there does need to be a goodly effect of the thing.

Edit- looking at the log, you're focus minding a lot. Talking it over with someone who's tested, something like a 3-4 second cooldown on it firing would do it, but the cooldown should not apply to focus mind, as that's a big part of the point of the thing.

So far with the testing I have seen it does not fire on eating herbs, smoking pipes, or applying anything. It will fire off on focus minding and stancing and focus body, any offensive action, the rates vary for each thing, with focus mind being the one with the highest rate, and offensive actions being on the lower scale along with focus body. What some systems are doing is avoiding using focus mind as a cure while you have badluck because you can still keep up with the insanity without focus mind.

Eyesnare I have never seen fire after testing, yet this could just be bad luck on my part.

Aaaah.

I know you've done a great deal of testing with paradigmatics, so that's probably a better analysis. If an adjustment to curing does the trick, better than kicking the crap out of the skill.

Eyesnare does fire, not sure why you haven't seen it. Eyesnare fires on anything it looks like- clotting, checking wound state, whatever. But it doesn't eat balance at all, it just does an amnesia thing, and gives a small insanity boost. It's firing rate is very very low, however.

Making it impossible to balanceloss stack seems like the best option, like Gregori said.

Edit: The fix I am talking about means that badluck will still proc as often as it supposedly does now, but if it procs while you're already offbalance from an earlier proc, the offbalance aspect does not kick to keep you that way for longer.

As long as it starts to take mana when it fails

I am fine with this fix, but if you fail focusmind on a badluck it doesn't consume mana. There should be a malus for just spamming focus mind till it goes through, and if we fix the balance loss then we at the very least need the mana consumption to still be there.

Yeah sure.

What if someone used, say, a ten power offensive move that procced badluck. Should they lose that power, or should this apply only to the two focus cures?

I don't believe they lose power if badluck procs, just the balance, don't quote me though.

It's the focusing that is the issue, because people use focus mind to cure insanity. So the way it works now is each fail stacks another balance loss, just in testing I balance locked myself for almost a minute and a half spamming focus mind. I completely agree that stacking balance loss is an issue, especially if it can be permalocked for all intent and purpose. The thing is though there needs to be some malus, or else if the balance loss is fixed, people can just spam focus mind, eat the one balance loss and keep spamming it till focus mind succeeds and cures insanity with no mana loss other than the successful cure. If we fix the balance loss, there needs to be something to prevent people from just doing such a thing, and so the fix to that is make focus mind consume mana whether it succeeds or not.


Hope that all made sense, it's 2am and I am tired.

No, power moves do not fall under this category.

The malus is the balance loss sans the stacking. Why do you feel it needs something extra if the stacking is removed? You already get a boon in causing the person's offense to decrease if they use certain actions. The removal of the stacking does not mean that a person could not still find himself off-balance a significant portion of the time BadLuck is on him, if he still uses focus mind to try to cure insanity. So, it is still in the best interest of the curer to refrain from using focus mind if the person wants to maintain some sort of steady offense, which is enough of a malus to using focus mind to cure insanity. Adding in a mana malus to failed attempts to use focus mind to cure is not needed at all, and would in fact make the skill overpowered in the hands of the future guardian guild.

Oh and btw, there is nothing in Aeonics that punishes a person for curing TimeWarp with focus mind. (directed towards Rainydays).

I am pretty sure I pointed out why there needs to be a malus on focus mind spamming. A person won't be off balance a significant portion of the time with balance loss stacking removed because they can lose the balance on the first badluck tic and then spam focus mind till it succeeds with no malus at all. Right now, the malus is the balance loss stacking. If you remove the one you need to replace it with something else. As for the Guardians, as you so handily pointed out, you don't have to focus mind. However, spamming the command off during a badluck proc should come with a risk attached just like using anything else that drains your mana around mana killing classes.

Edit:: It's also worth noting that spamming focus mind, currently, without badluck will drain your mana each time nothing cures. Badluck with no balance loss stacking just makes it so you can spam it mana free when it fails.

The reason why we want a focus mind to still take mana if it procures a badluck is to prevent people from spamming it once the balance loss stacking goes away, with out some way of punishing people for spamming it, they would simply use focus mind and if it hit badluck, they would incur one loss of balance and they would just hammer on it until it actually cured an affliction, thus making the point of badluck moot.

My question is does BadLuck proc on the same level of failure of Stupidity (a solid 33%) or does it stack with Stupidity to give a 66% failure rate. If it does, I seriously doubt that Badluck really needs to be knocking people off bal for failed actions to begin with. You're essentially getting uncurable stupidity.

I don't think we should assume that the guardians will get some sort of manakill, I think it'll be based off insanity/timewarp myself.

After sleeping on it, why not just have a failed focus with badluck take focusbalance instead of mana? That seems to solve Geb's issue while still maintaining the apparent intent of the skill.