A little help?

by Eamon

Back to Combat Logs.

Eamon2010-05-10 19:06:46
I'm having a little trouble figuring what to improve next in terms of curing in choke. I'm hoping for some honest feedback on what to change in my system to make things a little smoother. At the moment, I have a separate mode for choke that is supposed to try sending a command each second. The afflictions my choke mode cures isn't that extensive, pretty much includes things that you'd usually see in choke. All my aliases go through a pre-send filter that, when I'm choked, don't send the command but instead store it in a "next action" variable which will send on the next tic of my timer (unless there's a higher priority affliction that needs curing first).

Here's a log of me getting owned in choke (I have lots of them wink.gif ).

A few of problems that I see right off the bat:
1. Usually, I have 5 chervil, earwort, and marjoram outrifted beforehand, but I kind of got surprised in this one, so I missed out on eating things (chervil in this case) and don't yet have a check for having outrifted.
2. Actions aren't being sent every second all the time, had a bit of time at the start (3 or 4 seconds) where I wasn't doing anything.
3. Ended up missing quite a few actions due to stun... is there any way around this? I'd rather send things during the stun and chance the stun ending in the second delay. The afflictions and such shouldn't clear unless the cure actually worked.
4. Waking up after choke was cured sent through a whole bunch of insomnia commands that dropped me 1000 mana or so, leading to the toad. I'll need to add some kind of gimmick to stop that happening.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance!

CODE
Krellan points an athame dagger at you and a beam of flickering light shoots forth, covering you
with colourful flame.

* @ * @ * ---- LEFT ARM BAL ---- * @ * @ *
   <<<   POISONS: STUPIDITY and SLEEP   >>>
* * * CHOKED BY Alacardael * * *
* * * CHOKED BY Alacardael * * *
Shadows suddenly leap out from every corner, violently whirling in a sudden surge. When the shadows
dissipate slightly, you gasp as you feel strands of darkness still cling to you, binding you to
Alacardael in a suffocating, choking embrace.
/--Faethorn Realm.-----------------------------v2648--\\
           |         / |       | \\         |          
           - - - - -         
           | /       \\   \\   /   X       \\ |          
                                
           |           | /   \\ |     \\     |          
          - -   - -     - -   - -        
                       |       |         \\            
                                            
                         \\   /               \\        
                                               
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
\\--Time: 270 usec-------------------------------------/
* * * Easy mode = 3 * * *
* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

Thick shadows drag against your every action.

Thick shadows drag against your every action.

Thick shadows drag against your every action.

Thick shadows drag against your every action.

Krellan tells you, "Is CHOKED."


You suddenly perceive the vague outline of an aura of rebounding around Alacardael.

A banshee bound in shadows stares at you, then suddenly emits a high-pitched screech at you. The
soundwaves pierce into your very being, weakening you in both body and mind.
A redcap slashes you with a thin razor, causing blood to spurt from the wound, which he soaks up
with his little cap.
elrxkdb >
6158h, 5187m, 6930e, 10p elrxkdb-ql
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
elrxkdb
>
* * * CHOKE >>> Bleeding
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

You bleed 221 health.
elrxkdb >

What do you want to eat?
elrxkdb >
6480h, 5336m, 6930e, 10p elrxkdb-t nw
@PRESEND set CHOKE action to: tumble nw

Krellan stares at you with a burning intensity.

tar4 = Krellan
Krellan points an athame dagger at you and vines shoot forth, entangling you with a thorny embrace.

A barghest lifts his massive head and lets forth a blood curdling howl that pierces through the air.
* * * CHOKE >>> Action = tumble nw
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

Shadows grow longer in anticipation for the return of their dark mistress as Father Sun's chase
brings him closer to the world's edge.
elrxkdbp >

You begin to tumble agilely to the northwest.
elrkdbp >
* * * CHOKE >>> Entangled - writhe
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

A banshee bound in shadows stares at you, then suddenly emits a high-pitched screech at you. The
soundwaves pierce into your very being, weakening you in both body and mind.
elrkdbp >

You begin to struggle free of your entanglement.
* * * CHOKE >>> Bleeding

Krellan begins to sing an enchanting song.

Thick shadows drag against your every action.

A redcap slashes you with a thin razor, causing blood to spurt from the wound, which he soaks up
with his little cap.

What do you want to eat?

You bleed 426 health.
elrkdbp >

--==>> Alacardael applied on legs legs legs <<==--

Drawing back on his tiny bow, a pixie bound in shadows shoots an arrow straight at you.
Your insomnia has cleared up.

You twist and turn as you attempt to escape from your entanglement.

You sense the shadow binding and choking you and Alacardael beginning to depart.
elrkdbp >
* * * CHOKE >>> Insomnia
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

You have writhed free of your entanglement.

You tumble out of the room.
Runed pathway. (lost) (Faethorn Realm.)
The shadowy outline of a twisted forest casts a dark gloom here. The silvery leaves of a faebush
gently billow in the wind. A hemlock sapling clings tenaciously to the ground here. A golden
honeycomb lies here, gleaming with sugary goodness. Seer Alacardael, the Infinity is here,
shrouded. He wields an athame dagger in his left hand. Krellan Ysav'rai is here, shrouded. He
wields a Wand of Fire in his left hand and an athame dagger in his right.
You see exits leading north and southeast.

A leprechaun bound in shadows bumps into you and quickly apologizes.
A slaugh strokes a cold, beautiful finger across your cheek, and a cold sweat breaks out upon your
brow.
elrkdb >

You clench your fists, grit your teeth, and banish all possibility of sleep.
elrkdb
>
* * * CHOKE >>> Bleeding
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
5890h, 4338m, 6930e, 10p elrkdb-t n
@PRESEND set CHOKE action to: tumble n

You feel your will manipulated by a pooka bound in shadows.
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
* * * CHOKE >>> Action = tumble n
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

A pigwidgeon bound in shadows begins to follow you.

A slaugh strokes a cold, beautiful finger across your cheek, and a cold sweat breaks out upon your
brow.

Krellan stares at you with a burning intensity.

An armour-clad unicorn gazes intently at you, and you feel yourself drawn into her eyes, which
swirl about in a kaleidoscopic array of swirling colours. Your vision slowly fades into nothing but
curiously floating magenta spots.

Krellan swings an athame dagger with all his might, smashing it into your head with a resounding
ring.

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.

* @ * @ * ---- BAL RECOVERED ---- * @ * @ *
* * * CHOKE >>> Blindness
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

A banshee bound in shadows stares at you, then suddenly emits a high-pitched screech at you. The
soundwaves pierce into your very being, weakening you in both body and mind.
A redcap slashes you with a thin razor, causing blood to spurt from the wound, which he soaks up
with his little cap.
elrxkdbp >

You bleed 646 health.
elrxkdbp >

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
* * * CHOKE >>> Bleeding
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

A leprechaun bound in shadows bumps into you and quickly apologizes.
elrxkdbp >
4880h, 3889m, 6930e, 10p elrxkdbp-t n
@PRESEND set CHOKE action to: tumble n

You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
elrxkdbp >

You are no longer stunned and have a brief stun immunity.
* * * CHOKE >>> Action = tumble n
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
elrxkdb >

Krellan stares at you with a burning intensity.
elrxkdb >

Sunlight shines down upon you mercilessly, rippling across your skin like fire.
Krellan stares at you with a burning intensity.
elrxkdb >

A barghest lifts his massive head and lets forth a blood curdling howl that pierces through the air.

You begin to tumble agilely to the north.
* * * CHOKE >>> Mana low
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

You are no longer immune from stun.
Krellan stares at you with a burning intensity.

* * * WATCH MANA * * *
Krellan raises his arms and dances around you, spinning faster and faster. With each pass around
you, he shimmers with a dark beauty while your thoughts become cloudier and cloudier.
elrkdb
>

You take a drink from a bloodstone vial.
Your mind feels stronger and more alert.
elrkdb
>
* * * CHOKE >>> Bleeding

Alacardael thrusts an athame dagger into the ground near you, then as he withdraws his weapon from
the ground, your shadow comes with it.

Thick shadows drag against your every action.

A banshee bound in shadows stares at you, then suddenly emits a high-pitched screech at you. The
soundwaves pierce into your very being, weakening you in both body and mind.
elrkdb >

What do you want to eat?
elrkdb >
* * * CHOKE >>> Pox or Sunallergy
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

You bleed 587 health.
elrkdb
>

A redcap slashes you with a thin razor, causing blood to spurt from the wound, which he soaks up
with his little cap.

You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your skin.
The sores on your skin dry up and disappear.

Drawing back on his tiny bow, a pixie bound in shadows shoots an arrow straight at you.
Your insomnia has cleared up.

You tumble out of the room.
You are blind and can see nothing but darkness.
You sense the shadow binding and choking you and Alacardael beginning to depart.

You may apply another salve to yourself.
* * * CHOKE >>> Bleeding

A brownie bound in shadows runs up and tickles your sides.
Drawing back on his tiny bow, a pixie bound in shadows shoots an arrow straight at you.
* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You feel incredibly tired, and fall asleep immediately.
elrkdbp >
Thick shadows drag against your every action.

Thick shadows drag against your every action.

You may use another health, mana, or bromide potion, or medicine bag.

* * * CHOKE >>> CURED * * *
* * * Easy mode = 0 * * *
% KILL: no process 0
* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You sense the choking effect of the shadow leaving you.
* * * MANA BELOW 60 * * *
* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.
elrkdbp
>
* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.

* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.

* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.

* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.

* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.

* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.
* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.

* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
You are asleep and can do nothing. WAKE will attempt to wake you.
* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You open your eyes and yawn mightily.

* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You already are awake.
* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You already are awake.

* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You already are awake.

* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You already are awake.

* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You already are awake.

* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You already are awake.

* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You already are awake.
* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You already are awake.

* * * SYSTEM RESET TO DEFAULT * * *
You already are awake.
You clench your fists, grit your teeth, and banish all possibility of sleep.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

You are already an insomniac.
elrkdbp >

Krellan stares at you with a burning intensity.

Sunlight shines down upon you mercilessly, rippling across your skin like fire.
elrkdbp >

* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
* * * CHOKE >>> CURED * * *
% KILL: no process 0
* * * Easy mode = 0 * * *
Eyes flashing with anger, Krellan points a finger imperiously at you and utters a series of
guttural croaks. A strange thrumming fills your stomach, and you watch in horror as warts break out
over your skin which then turns green and slimy. The world seems to suddenly become much larger...
or are you becoming smaller? Hmm, why do you have a sudden craving for flies?
elrx >

* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
* * * CHOKE >>> CURED * * *
% KILL: no process 0
* * * Easy mode = 0 * * *
You are a toad! The only thing you can do is move and ribbit.
1270h, 1260m, 1260e, 10p elrx-t ne
* * * SYSTEM OFF * * *
* * * CHOKE >>> CURED * * *
% KILL: no process 0
* * * Easy mode = 0 * * *
You are a toad! The only thing you can do is move and ribbit.
1270h, 1260m, 1260e, 10p elrx-n
You crouch down to begin to hop north.
1270h, 1260m, 1260e, 10p elrx-n
You crouch down to begin to hop north.
Nienla2010-05-10 19:13:06
QUOTE (Eamon @ May 10 2010, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Log


Tumble. And then tumble some more. Groups are nasty with Choke, but tumbling can at least proc it off of you.
Lehki2010-05-10 19:28:37
QUOTE (Nienla @ May 10 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tumble. And then tumble some more. Groups are nasty with Choke, but tumbling can at least proc it off of you.

He did, actually. But yeah, fighting 2 v 1 against choke users? You shouldn't even go near that.

Can't really find where the delay in the timer tics is in that log, your prompt timer hurts my eyes looking at it. And it's hard to figure what the problem could be without knowing the actual code. You mentioned a timer tic, so is it something that fires every second off of constant timer?
Eamon2010-05-10 20:01:48
QUOTE
Tumble. And then tumble some more. Groups are nasty with Choke, but tumbling can at least proc it off of you.


I did successfully tumble twice in there, and did mange to lift choke on the second, although I got double-teamed by the pixies before the tumble finished, so I was asleep when it happened.

QUOTE
Can't really find where the delay in the timer tics is in that log, your prompt timer hurts my eyes looking at it. And it's hard to figure what the problem could be without knowing the actual code. You mentioned a timer tic, so is it something that fires every second off of constant timer?


The timer is ticing (at least) every time you see a line like this:
CODE
* * * CHOKE >>> Bleeding


It's supposed to be going every second, but if you watch the time on the prompt (that's the real eyesore of a long number), you'll see that for some reason it isn't ticking every second after all. I'm having a look at the code now, but it's honestly too messy to post here. blush.gif

But you've got the idea, I have a timer to go every second, and every time the timer goes, it checks a queue of common afflictions, plus the "next action" variable to decide what to do. I suspect the times that it doesn't appear in the log it just hasn't found anything to do, which is easy enough to fix - I'll just set a default action to swing at whoever choked me wink.gif

But I guess the question is - is this a viable way to handle choke curing? What do other people use? Is it really supposed to be impossible/intractable to cure two people while afflicted by a 3-power (+ a shadow) skill?
Sylphas2010-05-10 20:05:37
QUOTE (Eamon @ May 10 2010, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I did successfully tumble twice in there, and did mange to lift choke on the second, although I got double-teamed by the pixies before the tumble finished, so I was asleep when it happened.



The timer is ticing (at least) every time you see a line like this:
CODE
* * * CHOKE >>> Bleeding


It's supposed to be going every second, but if you watch the time on the prompt (that's the real eyesore of a long number), you'll see that for some reason it isn't ticking every second after all. I'm having a look at the code now, but it's honestly too messy to post here. blush.gif

But you've got the idea, I have a timer to go every second, and every time the timer goes, it checks a queue of common afflictions, plus the "next action" variable to decide what to do. I suspect the times that it doesn't appear in the log it just hasn't found anything to do, which is easy enough to fix - I'll just set a default action to swing at whoever choked me wink.gif

But I guess the question is - is this a viable way to handle choke curing? What do other people use? Is it really supposed to be impossible/intractable to cure two people while afflicted by a 3-power (+ a shadow) skill?


Two fae in choke is hard enough to cure, let alone having two people beating on you. They could sleeplock you really easily, or even just keep using vines. The basic point of wiccan combat is to stick Aeon; choke makes that ludicrously easy, and there is zero drawback, really, if it's 2v1.
Lehki2010-05-10 20:07:39
QUOTE (Eamon @ May 10 2010, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I did successfully tumble twice in there, and did mange to lift choke on the second, although I got double-teamed by the pixies before the tumble finished, so I was asleep when it happened.



The timer is ticing (at least) every time you see a line like this:
CODE
* * * CHOKE >>> Bleeding


It's supposed to be going every second, but if you watch the time on the prompt (that's the real eyesore of a long number), you'll see that for some reason it isn't ticking every second after all. I'm having a look at the code now, but it's honestly too messy to post here. blush.gif

But you've got the idea, I have a timer to go every second, and every time the timer goes, it checks a queue of common afflictions, plus the "next action" variable to decide what to do. I suspect the times that it doesn't appear in the log it just hasn't found anything to do, which is easy enough to fix - I'll just set a default action to swing at whoever choked me wink.gif

But I guess the question is - is this a viable way to handle choke curing? What do other people use? Is it really supposed to be impossible/intractable to cure two people while afflicted by a 3-power (+ a shadow) skill?

Don't think making it send the swing itself is such a great idea, I have mine flash a big warning that I can attack now when it finds nothing to do. And yes, 2v1 you really can't do anything but tumble the Nil out of there.
Zallafar2010-05-10 21:57:23
For my system, I only use a choke timer as a failsafe. Most of the time I know when to send the next command by noticing when the previous command went through. I treat choke as just another balance to wait for. I lose the balance when I send a command, I regain the balance when the command is executed.

That part works great. What doesn't work great is standing there choked and curing in 2 vs 1 while trying to mount some offense.
Mirami2010-05-10 22:10:44
I don't see them using bonds, so snorting spores out might also be viable? Just a thought, for escaping in the future (since, as has been mentioned before, 2v1 in choke has only one 'win' strategy, run run run).
Unknown2010-05-10 22:13:47
Two SDs who know what they're doing pretty much means you have to tumble and hope for the best.

I guess you did get caught surprised, but yeah, metawake is good.
Placeus2010-05-11 01:54:33
One thing that might help is configuring your logging to include the commands sent to the MUD. We can see your echoes when your choke curing kicks in, but seeing exactly what is sent to the mud is helpful to track down any rogue things that could be firing and tripping up your curing.

You should also look at where in your curing priority clot is. A single clot isn't going to make a huge difference to how things turn out. You could probably keep up clotting every second, but then you'd be unable to do anything else. I typically ignore bleeding in choke (aside from echoes to tell me how bad it is) so that I can focus on curing other affs and escaping.

I'm not sure what the context of the fight was but if you were expecting to fight chokers in a group, I'd have an exit strategy in place. You could have spores ready to snort if bonds isn't up or you could have an icewall up to tumble behind to slow their persuit and hopefully break choke. I didn't see any other Serens in your log, but if you're fighting with others, a good strategy is to put up a prismatic barrier and wait for your side to kill the choker. I used to do this with mantra prism, and I'm fairly sure you could with moon full.
Eamon2010-05-11 17:00:29
@Solanis+Romerien: I'm not really looking for strategies to win or escape. The question is more about how better to deal with curing in choke.

QUOTE
For my system, I only use a choke timer as a failsafe. Most of the time I know when to send the next command by noticing when the previous command went through. I treat choke as just another balance to wait for. I lose the balance when I send a command, I regain the balance when the command is executed.


Does that mean you trigger all possible lines where you are doing something to give back your choke balance? Or is it mostly something that you just manual? If you are manual, do you find you can still get through enough commands to be effective in a delay (assume a 1v1 fight)?

QUOTE
One thing that might help is configuring your logging to include the commands sent to the MUD. We can see your echoes when your choke curing kicks in, but seeing exactly what is sent to the mud is helpful to track down any rogue things that could be firing and tripping up your curing.


I usually have this in logs. Like I said, I got a bit surprised here and wasn't logging. This was just copy/paste from my buffer.

QUOTE
You should also look at where in your curing priority clot is. A single clot isn't going to make a huge difference to how things turn out. You could probably keep up clotting every second, but then you'd be unable to do anything else. I typically ignore bleeding in choke (aside from echoes to tell me how bad it is) so that I can focus on curing other affs and escaping.


Bleeding's not particularly high priority, and it's not trying to clot, it's trying to eat chervil. That's why the "what is it you wish to eat?" shows up after those, because it wants chervil but I hadn't outrifted. I'm adding out a check for outrifting. Bleeding builds really fast in choke, I agree, faster than clotting will help with. But if you just ignore it, you have to run really fast or die to the redcaps. See how quickly two redcaps got me to 600+ bleeding?

QUOTE
I'm not sure what the context of the fight was but if you were expecting to fight chokers in a group, I'd have an exit strategy in place. You could have spores ready to snort if bonds isn't up or you could have an icewall up to tumble behind to slow their persuit and hopefully break choke. I didn't see any other Serens in your log, but if you're fighting with others, a good strategy is to put up a prismatic barrier and wait for your side to kill the choker. I used to do this with mantra prism, and I'm fairly sure you could with moon full.


The context was: Alacardael was doing his daily kick-and-run exercises in Etherwilde, and I had chased him into Faethorn (This is why I wasn't logging - because if I logged every time there was a kick-n-run, my harddrive would be full wink.gif ). He'd just gotten back to the Glom arch and I was heading to leave when wham! I walk into a room and am immediately choked, then Krellan vines and the log shows the result. I think Kolm? was also in Faethorn near the start of the fight, but we weren't together. I'm also Stag, not Moon, so don't have a cheap prismatic. I could have serpented and then tumbled, I guess, but there was no chance at waiting for reinforcements to kill the choker. There never is sad.gif

Shishi2010-05-11 17:27:35
The way you have it coded now seems to be good for defence and while you are running, but it looks like it would be hard to mount any sort of offense in it. Really if I had my dream choke system it would have a setting for curing while I am tumbling and running away, and a setting that would flash out when not to press a button because it's curing a hindering affliction with alerts for other afflictions so I can stay offensive and manually cure things like focus mind, if bleeding gets to be too much the little clotting you are able to do is going to give them more chance to hinder and mess you up so if you need to clot running is probably the better option unless you are in the process of tumbling away. If your system hadn't messed up there it looks like you could have drank some mana and ate a sparkleberry and actually gotten away. Other than that just run like heck if you are 2v1 and you are choked like everyone else said.
Zallafar2010-05-12 03:12:52
QUOTE (Eamon @ May 11 2010, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does that mean you trigger all possible lines where you are doing something to give back your choke balance? Or is it mostly something that you just manual? If you are manual, do you find you can still get through enough commands to be effective in a delay (assume a 1v1 fight)?

In combat I push pretty much all commands through my system so that they only go when I have the appropriate balances. So I have entered more than 400 commands into the system, so that they are queueable and have their balances known. As part of that I also put in a trigger for when each command goes through. Besides helping with choke, this also helps me to determine which command got eaten by stupidity, for example, so I can start retrying it right away without waiting for a timer.

Sounds like a lot of work, but I only did them a few at a time over a year and a half. Learn a new skill, stick it in the system.