Lendren2010-05-12 20:27:22
QUOTE (Sylphas @ May 12 2010, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How about we fix it, THEN figure out how to tweak it?
I have a fear that if we ever do fix it, we're going to find out that the only thing that's kept it from being an amazing weapon for making people miserable without any means of countering it has been that it's been buggy as hell since day one. So I have mixed feelings about fixing it. We need to do it, but the six months to follow (that's about the minimum amount of time it takes to convince the admins that something's being used a method of screwing with and driving off other players, and get it changed) are going to be awful. So I just hope they don't fix it until after they finish dealing with divinefire, so at least we only have one solid reason not to log in, and one thing ensuring the other 95% of Lusternia can't be enjoyed, at a time.
Xavius2010-05-12 20:38:19
QUOTE (Lendren @ May 12 2010, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a fear that if we ever do fix it, we're going to find out that the only thing that's kept it from being an amazing weapon for making people miserable without any means of countering it has been that it's been buggy as hell since day one. So I have mixed feelings about fixing it. We need to do it, but the six months to follow (that's about the minimum amount of time it takes to convince the admins that something's being used a method of screwing with and driving off other players, and get it changed) are going to be awful. So I just hope they don't fix it until after they finish dealing with divinefire, so at least we only have one solid reason not to log in, and one thing ensuring the other 95% of Lusternia can't be enjoyed, at a time.
I've only run into dreambody bugs twice in six years. Trust me, it's pretty weak.
I understand the frustrations with removing dreambodies. A furrikin demigod dreamweaver with absinthe pretty much just doesn't die short of a Harmony monk barrage. However, I've sat trying to kill an AFK non-combatant from dreambody before and straight failed. (I think it was Kelysa, but I might be wrong.) It's a support role only, even when it does work.
Lehki2010-05-12 20:46:26
QUOTE (Lendren @ May 12 2010, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a fear that if we ever do fix it, we're going to find out that the only thing that's kept it from being an amazing weapon for making people miserable without any means of countering it has been that it's been buggy as hell since day one. So I have mixed feelings about fixing it. We need to do it, but the six months to follow (that's about the minimum amount of time it takes to convince the admins that something's being used a method of screwing with and driving off other players, and get it changed) are going to be awful. So I just hope they don't fix it until after they finish dealing with divinefire, so at least we only have one solid reason not to log in, and one thing ensuring the other 95% of Lusternia can't be enjoyed, at a time.
Don't worry about that, they're not that great. The current incarnation of the bug is the only one that's severally hindered use of dreambody for harassament, and only because using it would be bug abuse. You can't hit dreambodies back right now, so they're essentially unstoppable unless you find the real body. The only thing they can't do now that they normally could is follow you, and even that's not that hard to get away from when it was working, just change elevation or wait for them to do something and move while they're off EQ.
And when it was working more properly, I've tried killing people who were AFK at a nexus, and didn't even come close to doing anything meaningful.
Kaalak2010-05-13 08:36:22
QUOTE (Xavius @ May 12 2010, 01:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I understand the frustrations with removing dreambodies. A furrikin demigod dreamweaver with absinthe pretty much just doesn't die short of a Harmony monk barrage. However, I've sat trying to kill an AFK non-combatant from dreambody before and straight failed. (I think it was Kelysa, but I might be wrong.) It's a support role only, even when it does work.
It takes two to three dreamweavers (prenerf) to take down an AFK target, and only after a great deal of coordination prep before hand. One literally does nothing except annoy, and then willpower runs out.
Lendren2010-05-13 10:37:28
We'll see.
Kaalak2010-05-13 11:17:04
QUOTE (Shiri @ May 11 2010, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, but...that's a good change. Right now there isn't anything that lets you catch ghosts or weavers at all. They can put out a non-zero amount of harrassment on you.
EDIT: Well, weavers can.
EDIT: Well, weavers can.
Yeah Shiri this would literally kill weavers. Remember dreamweavers are on a timer (willpower), and ever action they take drains that timer further.
I strongly suggest anyone who agrees with this idea to make a weaver alt and play it. You will see immediately.
Lendren2010-05-13 13:51:44
For the record, I don't particularly like this idea, and if it does go in, the drain had better be way too high to keep up for any length of time (even worse than, say, Dramatics Review). My comments about a fixed Dreamweaving being a good make-people-miserable skill are not intended to be construed as support for the original idea
(Incidentally, those who responded to that comment all hung on the idea that Dreamweaving's ability to make people miserable would have something to do with its (complete lack of) ability to kill people. When was the last time anyone who spends all their time trying to make other people miserable and drive them off the game, did it by killing people, in Lusternia? I mean, really. It's all about two things now: ensuring no one can do anything but respond to you when you feel an itch, and finding ways to undo your work and obligate you to more work. No one kills anyone to annoy them because being killed isn't really even annoying.)
(Incidentally, those who responded to that comment all hung on the idea that Dreamweaving's ability to make people miserable would have something to do with its (complete lack of) ability to kill people. When was the last time anyone who spends all their time trying to make other people miserable and drive them off the game, did it by killing people, in Lusternia? I mean, really. It's all about two things now: ensuring no one can do anything but respond to you when you feel an itch, and finding ways to undo your work and obligate you to more work. No one kills anyone to annoy them because being killed isn't really even annoying.)
Lehki2010-05-13 18:27:41
QUOTE (Lendren @ May 13 2010, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For the record, I don't particularly like this idea, and if it does go in, the drain had better be way too high to keep up for any length of time (even worse than, say, Dramatics Review). My comments about a fixed Dreamweaving being a good make-people-miserable skill are not intended to be construed as support for the original idea
(Incidentally, those who responded to that comment all hung on the idea that Dreamweaving's ability to make people miserable would have something to do with its (complete lack of) ability to kill people. When was the last time anyone who spends all their time trying to make other people miserable and drive them off the game, did it by killing people, in Lusternia? I mean, really. It's all about two things now: ensuring no one can do anything but respond to you when you feel an itch, and finding ways to undo your work and obligate you to more work. No one kills anyone to annoy them because being killed isn't really even annoying.)
(Incidentally, those who responded to that comment all hung on the idea that Dreamweaving's ability to make people miserable would have something to do with its (complete lack of) ability to kill people. When was the last time anyone who spends all their time trying to make other people miserable and drive them off the game, did it by killing people, in Lusternia? I mean, really. It's all about two things now: ensuring no one can do anything but respond to you when you feel an itch, and finding ways to undo your work and obligate you to more work. No one kills anyone to annoy them because being killed isn't really even annoying.)
I really don't know why you think it could possibly be that annoying. You've been around long enough to have dealt with the worst dreamweavers can do. It's not like there's certain abilities and tactics they have never been able to use before.
Unknown2010-05-13 18:33:35
Possession is pretty darned annoying.
Lendren2010-05-13 18:46:30
QUOTE (Lehki @ May 13 2010, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really don't know why you think it could possibly be that annoying. You've been around long enough to have dealt with the worst dreamweavers can do. It's not like there's certain abilities and tactics they have never been able to use before.
Quite simply because almost no one takes and keeps it, because it's so broken. That's the point: if it weren't broken, those things would be happening all the time. Anyway, it's not a certainty, not even a hunch, just a worry.
Xenthos2010-05-13 22:07:26
QUOTE (Lendren @ May 13 2010, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quite simply because almost no one takes and keeps it, because it's so broken. That's the point: if it weren't broken, those things would be happening all the time. Anyway, it's not a certainty, not even a hunch, just a worry.
You're actually right; a cluster of dreamweavers working together can be extremely annoying, and a single dreamweaver going around alone has no real intent of doing anything but trying to be a nuisance (void a person or two and run).
And that's speaking as someone who can auto-trigger dreamweaver entry to violet the dreamweaver. And has.
Iktomi2010-05-14 23:35:10
QUOTE (Lehki @ May 12 2010, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The only thing they can't do now that they normally could is follow you, and even that's not that hard to get away from when it was working, just change elevation or wait for them to do something and move while they're off EQ.
They can't hear what's being said in the room with their dreambody, or see actions either. Which completely gets rid of it's other useful function (and the one I wanted it for): Subterfuge and spying.
Xenthos2010-05-14 23:48:31
QUOTE (Iktomi @ May 14 2010, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They can't hear what's being said in the room with their dreambody, or see actions either. Which completely gets rid of it's other useful function (and the one I wanted it for): Subterfuge and spying.
That's a bug actually, used to be able to hear stuff (and then they made it work on emotes a while later).
Iktomi2010-05-14 23:53:17
Yeah, that's the bug along with the Link bug that Lehki was talking about. They get it fixed occasionally, but never for more than a few hours.
Siam2010-05-17 13:57:25
It's sad to see people wanting to see Dreamweaving stay bugged forever.
EDIT:
Why not turn Indigo into a skill that has an X% chance to detect dreambody/ghost entry to the room, and somewhat similar to Balancing: have an X% chance to fade away when triggered, and still has a heavy drain while up.
EDIT2:
Idea updated on page 1.
EDIT:
Why not turn Indigo into a skill that has an X% chance to detect dreambody/ghost entry to the room, and somewhat similar to Balancing: have an X% chance to fade away when triggered, and still has a heavy drain while up.
EDIT2:
Idea updated on page 1.
Lendren2010-05-17 14:22:31
QUOTE (thisismydisplayname @ May 17 2010, 09:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's sad to see people wanting to see Dreamweaving stay bugged forever.
If you mean me, I don't.