Conquest government is, by far, the worst conflict system I've seen in this game, ever, in terms of fun.

It just needs a time-limiting factor to be fine. For instance, maybe you only gain in conquest by forming a squad, declaring it in formation, and then doing some new command, SQUAD CONQUEST, which gives you 20 minutes during which conquest counts (and it's worth 10x as much as it is now); and when it's done, no one in your organization can do it again for another four hours. Then it would not only be fine, it'd be a positive step for Lusternia. I think it would be better for the morale of both sides too, though maybe only my side really feels it (we're so exhausted and ground down that we're hemorhagging people and the will to participate at rates as bad as at the worst of the XI/hai'Glom debacle, it seems to me).

Though part of it isn't just the conquest thing, but the imbalance Lusternia has always had, since day one, between "hide/sneak/get-away" skills and the skills that counter them. Everyone talks about the way Lusternia combat favors the group, but it's less often talked about how it favors not-fighting over fighting. Admittedly that goes in cycles too, and we happen to be at a nadir. (Dare I speculate that having two people who helped design and play Occultists as the primary creative force behind Lusternia might help explain why it's always had so many cool ways to escape and avoid battles, and so few effective counters thereto?)

I approve of the SQUAD CONQUEST idea. I'd like a short big boost rather than a continuous trickle. We've been bashing out Delport, Shanthmark, and Southgard for, what, three days now? All we've managed to do is slow down negative feelings in opposing villages.


EDIT: Not to mention the painful Prime enemy territory deaths. Those hurt. Epicly.

The risks of furthering conquest governments influence already far outweigh the others, with religious being a close second- though influencing villagers certainly won't raise an alarm in itself.

While I certainly understand morale is a valid concern, it would seem that once again it is an opportunity for interesting rp. Serenwilde could, for example, try to worm further into Hallifax's or Celest's hearts and ask them to speak on their behalf to the tyrants of Glomdoring. Or, of course, speak to Glomdoring themselves and ask for peace. But hey, why break the comfortable vanilla rp, hmm?

Why in the world would Glomdoring listen to Serenwilde asking for peace? Other than maybe the possibility of ganging up against the cities. I just don't see how Glomdoring would benefit, considering how powerful they are right now.

What he said.

You could also argue that one side beating the other into surrender is sort of negating the premise of a game where the conflict between orgs is the main focus. If one org really did manage to conquer everyone in name as well as deed, that would have a pretty big impact on the premise.

Well, sure, there's no technical reason. If Glomdoring is strong enough to crush Serenwilde, then they can just keep doing what they are no matter what, sure. But, isn't that kind of boring for Glomdoring as much for Serenwilde? Oh, joy, we've beat them again. Woo.

But what about other kinds of victory? Psychological victory, for example. And other kinds of loss? Strategic loss, for example? If Glomdoring were to say, "Hey, Serenwilde! We'll knock this crap off for a while if you'll give us 5,000,000 gold, 2,000 of every commodity and all the sands of the Manifestation that you get this year." Or something like that, I dunno. That's an example. I'm sure someone else could come up with something much better, of course. The point is, it would need to be something Serenwilde wouldn't want to pay. Because then they could make a choice between some breathing room to rest, regroup and rally in or not making a big sacrifice that would hurt their pride (but not much else really).

Then, if Serenwilde takes it, then Glomdoring can spread it about the Basin that Serenwilde had to buy their peace and so on - but Serenwilde could use the time to strengthen up, so when they're ready, they can overthrow the evil Glomdoring and take back what's theirs and so on. If they don't, then Glomdoring continues on, but has the 'at least we tried' moral ground.

But, I'd noticed before that there's a distinct lack of willingness to 'bite the bullet' and take the sucky deal for now in order to work on turning the tables amongst folks in Lusternia. It's either win it all or lose it all with no pretend to lose only as long as we need to. But that's way more fun, I'd think!

You do realize that Glomdoring and Serenwilde were at peace not too terribly long ago, right? The peace was broken because someone from Glomdoring did something, and someone from Serenwilde decided to enemy all the people from Glomdoring that had nothing to do with that something and who, in fact, even defended Serenwilde from Magnagoran raids. You're right, Glomdoring wouldn't benefit by much, but then again we don't benefit much from allying with Hallifax except not having to worry about Hallifax raiders. And sure, Glomdoring is powerful for now but that is certainly not Glomdoring's track record.

I'd be more than happy to not have Serenwilde to worry over, really. Heck, I would even prefer to have a religious or commercial government but it's not much of an issue.

I actually think one of Narynth's first acts when she took over from Talan was to offer peace to Serenwilde. She was refused.


EDIT: I agree to what Noola said. Commodities4peace pls.

Noola: no, it isn't really boring for them.

It's funny you say that when you're one of the bigger reasons everybody in Seren is so pissy at Glom. And that peace was only because of a RP event that practically forced it.

Well, during the time that Glomdoring and Serenwilde were at peace, I helped defend Serenwilde many times. Let's be honest, it's not as if Serenwilde did nothing ever to Glomdoring. Oh yes, Glomdoring's had the upper hand for what- six months or close to a year? Compared to the years that Serenwilde was quite happy to keep Glomdoring crushed, I'm going to have to say Serenwilde really doesn't have a lot to complain about.

To be blunt, Serenwilde is not in a position to be pissy. Or I guess they can, but how's it working out? Seems to me that Serenwilde is hell bent on fighting to the end and not doing anything in game to change anything at all.

I'm pretty sure the reason the Glomdoring-Serenwilde treaty fell apart was because of TBC and the Dwarven Monarchs. There was a revolt, Ethilwen was raised, Southgard went to Glomdoring. TBC went up. Serenwilde and Magnagora killed Ethilwen, the guards, and the Wyrdling.

I was there during the Ethilwen-guard-Wyrdling killing, so yes, I'm pretty sure.


EDIT: I am also pretty sure this is getting heated. Go go before the mods come!

What Urazial is talking about is the 3rd Celest-Glomdoring treaty. Azoth came out of dormancy, killed Captain Gil, and New Celest started to (re)enemy. War and hilarity ensued.

Any leader who does bite the bullet and admit defeat officially will end up getting bit (harder) by a populace that would rather be beaten into the ground repeatedly than officially lose a war/conflict.

I think that's an IRE rule of some kind.

Maybe not everyone, yeah. I know there's always some folks who just love the killin.

But what do you think about the rest of what I said? I think it's a good point!





I've noticed! It's an incredibly two-dimensional way of thinking though. Subterfuge is fun! Folks need to embrace their inner Slytherins! Stop being all Gryffindor all the time!

^ This. I can't see any leader who "offers peace" (read: surrenders) to Glomdoring (or whoever) ending up very popular by any means.

Heh, most leaders are more afraid of their own people than their enemy. It's the RP of everyone and their mother to 'never give up!' Mechanically, though, surrender is a good option. You lose less (power for guards comes to mind), plus the opposite organization would lose an enemy to beat up on (Glomdoring would have no villages to bash, for example - bad for Conquest).

In general, it's pretty rare to find people who are willing to RP the "loser" in a conflict, even temporarily for the sake of a bigger picture or in exchange for getting to come out ahead, later.



It is a good point.

I do wonder about the RP viability of Serenwilde becoming a vassal state to Glomdoring. I don't know what the current Glomdoring "mission" is, but in my day, Phase 1 of a Serenwilde surrender would involve... um... Wyrdenizing them.