I am looking on perspective into the etymology, or origin, of the word 'Nekotai.' Most people casually know this term from the game's help file under HELP NEKOTAI:



I was not present for this event, and only a handful of documents and first-person retellings to rely upon. This document denotes Nekotai as a fae word meaning "Bringer of Sorrow," and the arts were with the illithoid for quite some time (i.e. ancient). How long? That is not outright indicated. Though, a foray into HELP GUILDNOVICES NEKOTAI produces this bit of text:



These (much outdated) documents suggest the Scorpion Style of combat to be in the Illithoid's possession for quite some time.

What is not indicated, is whether the "fae" word of Nekotai was proposed by those of the Glomdoring commune, or instituted by the now surface dwelling Nekotai under the guidance of Madame Yoraghu. In fact, one Divine Scholar believes:



However, speaking the word "Nekotai" to the Wise Lady of Scorpion Caverns produces this monologue:



The convolution of documentation obscures the true origins of the word Nekotai. I have always taken the Wise Lady as the final say on any history references regarding the Nektoai, namely because her character is the most recent and complete source on this history. Believing the Wise Lady does present some challenges to understanding how the word Nekotai originated, especially considering the fae origins and lack of documentation of the Great Spirit Scorpion's history beyond the book involving Blooredi's debut Scorpion.

I know that the fae are commune based, and so are the Great Spirits; though didn't have any textural evidence to bridge the assumption of Scorpion's connection with fae. How might she have encountered these creatures, and why would they give term to the Scorpion Style of combat? What about the Illithoid; did they continue usage of the term Nekotai through their psionic communications with one another in the UV. If so, wow could they come to understand a fae word when they may have never encountered one. Why was the word preserved (assuming that it was) and passed along to those of the Wyrden Monks? Perhaps someone with a deeper and wider knowledge of all Lusternian history might better know the answer to this question.

I am compelled to learn more. . .

Additional research on the topic brings be to The Book of Elfenehoala, a scroll that was procured on 18th of Vestian, 255 CE (indexed to the Glomdoring Library nearly two decades after my foray into academic scholarship with the writing of The Origin of Nekotai which was dated for the 25th of Roarkian, 237 CE).

Not to spoil a good read, but Blooredi presents the manifestation of scorpions as the Great Spirit Scorpion to the members of the Seventh Circle on Ethereal (during the campaign involving the forming of the Maeve collective):



This scroll and particular passage is of extreme importance in the Liturgical Cannon of the Nekotai, as explains the origins of Grandmother Scorpion to the histories of Lusteria. Although this passage does not directly depict Scorpion's interaction with Maeve or the fae, it situates Scorpion within that context. I cannot tell you how satisfying this part of the Lusternia mythology was to the Nekotai at large, and Grandmother Scorpion scholars (such as myself) in particular.

Though... this still leaves questions about the preservation of the Scorpion Style of combat outright known as Nekotai within the Illithoid history and culture.

Few things...

never rely on the guildnovices scroll, these are player written.

It seems the easiest resolution to the conflicts is that:
Glomdoring titled the arts they received from the Illithoid "Nekotai"
The Wise Lady is using the work Nekotai as a convenient term hence the possibility of true nekotai and nekotai.
As such true Nekotai actually has a different real name and I shall dub it Bobfu.

I ouch @ the "it's"

I'd never heard the fae word relating to crow thing before.

I think these things are always most fun when there are competing viewpoints. Never mind about the 'truth' of the matter. Getting definitive answers is boring. Why not start opposing schools of thought within the Nekotai. It's ripe for the roleplay of scholastic schism.

On an ooc level it seems rather straight forward to be honest, if the original help file in the op was written by the admin at the time of the creation of the nekotai then it is correct and those admin who are trying to state otherwise are just showing us that they are human and getting things mixed up. Though the divine scholar does remember it as a fae word just not the correct translation.

Remembering vaguely... Shofa and Nekotai are both in the "fae language" and were specifically stated as such during the creation of the monks, don't know about the city specs though. I think shofa might actually be fae for deer horn.

I kinda wish the wise lady talked about a completely different art, giving it their own name and the like while commenting on how it shares some similarity with that Glomdoring calls Nekotai. It allows for the history connecting to the scorpion gang but also leaves nekotai as the current organisation purely within Glomdoring.

Shofa isn't deer horn. It's in that vicinity though.

@Fain: you need more qualifiers for open-ended debate like that to be interesting. The main one I have in mind is that when a guild has no or a weak identity and is struggling to establish one, obfuscation on the part of the admin can be actively counterproductive (doesn't always have to be the case though - see the Wyrd.) Now the Nekotai may not feel they are in that position - their history is the best fleshed-out of the monk guilds and they have stealth - but if they did, looking for clarification there wouldn't be wrong of them.

Actually, all of the history preceding the origin of the Wyrden Nekotai is ripe with very deep and rich paradoxes. For example:

1) The tension created by Blooredi's jealousy over Viravain's creations. Yet, where do the Scorpion Cult of the Nekotai finally reside? Yup.

2) Tzaraziko fought valiantly against Illith, and in that moment of "orb grabbing" she was empowered by the beast she sought to fell.

3) Tzaraziko's adoption of Grandmother Scorpion (especially in light of Scorpion running away from Blooredi). This is one of many examples of the Matron-themed narratives behind the Nekotai.

4) Tzaraziko's ability to bring together lucidians and dracnari, despite their racial differences (some of which stem back to the debate over Tzaraziko's own origins).

5) Grandmother Scorpion's acceptance of the illithoid race, especially in light of her mentor Tzaraziko's history in battling the soulless.

Etc... Etc... Etc...

Within the contemporary player history of the Wyrden Nekotai (i.e. post Grandmother Scorpion plotline), we have an internal faction that is split over how deeply we should exalt Grandmother Scorpion, Tzaraziko, and the Old Ones.

Those of the "Blood" path are Wyrden purists (dubbed Vanguards of the Wyrd). As combatants, many of these individuals don't delve into the entirety of the Nekotai's backstory. They are accepting of Grandmother Scorpion, yet have entirely dedicated themselves to Glomdoring. Hence, they see no obligations to honour the Old Ones (and feel slightly uncomfortable when they realize G.mom is not truly Wyrden).

Those of the "Faith" path, the more RP based section of the guild, really dig deep into the histories. There is a very Cult-like devotion to Grandmother Scorpion, the Old Ones, and Grandmother Scorpion. This is somewhat at odds with "Nothing Else Matters But Glomdoring" mentality. For example, I attempted to pass commune-wide legislation to prevent hunting the gemstone scorpions of the Scorpion Caverns... which was somewhat of an uphill battle to explain to the Shadow Court. Fun, fun, fun RP.

I love that we have this level of complexity that allows for all sorts of interpretations on the text. Though, in light of my book's critique, are players allowed to offer their own interpretation of the histories through publication of scholarly works? Also, what is the stance on NPC's? Are they fallible or infallible? Should I take everything Wise Lady says as the absolute truth?

That sounds brill.

I wouldn't necessarily trust NPCs. Progs are written and mobs are possessed with a view to an NPC's character, culture and peccadiloes. It depends on the mob and I don't know anything about Wise Lady or the Scorpion caves.

As far as offering your own interpretation of the histories through publication and submission to the library contest, absolutely. If something is patently wrong - e.g. Fain was a Vernal God and splintered into furrikin - then a divine scholar may offer a note correcting it and it is likely to affect a scholarly score. But if a point is arguable or polemic or propaganda, then I don't see why it should attract criticism or indeed comment - after all, the choice of a perspective in such matters, however skewed, is good roleplay.

As Saran pointed out - both Shofangi and Nekotai are fae words relating to their great animal spirits. Shofangi means something along the lines of 'majesty of the White Hart', while Nekotai means 'bringer of Sorrow' (probably somehow related to the Black Sorrow aspect of Crow, at least in which aspect of Crow's behaviour it reflects).

Grandmother Scorpion is reclusive and does not like contact - I'd be surprised if she - or her cult - were in contact with the Faethorn to even know what happened to Crow. Remember, they were cut off psionically with the assistance of the Illithoid.

And the Nekotai shouldn't worship Spirit Scorpion, much like the Nekotai/Ninjakari shouldn't worship Illith nor the Tahtetso/Shofangi Keph. Plenty of reasons not to - least among them being that Scorpion is not a spirit of Glomdoring. To follow Scorpion would mean to abandon your city/commune and recluse yourself from civilization - as it always has for her followers. And the mummies! Eeek!

You say, "Nekotai."

Wise Lady, Voice of the Grandmother says, "Some of Grandmother's faithful have been entrusted with the fighting arts of Her children. This great Gift we call Nekotai."

Wise Lady, Voice of the Grandmother says, "We have heard of the Nekotai of Glomdoring, who took our sacred name for the Gift of the Grandmother, having learnt from the illithoids that Gift, which we once taught to the illithoid in exchange for their psionic shield that guarded us from harm."

Wise Lady, Voice of the Grandmother says, "But the true Nekotai are of the chosen of the Grandmother, and none will know it's deepest secrets without regard for Her."

Research == using the NPC responses as part of the formation of your conclusions.


As to the rest of it: Scorpion is, like it or not, part of the Glomdoring now to some extent. Not one of our main Spirits, nor one the Glomdoring as a whole worships, but Glomdoring has a law on the books about not killing off the scorpions in the Scorpion Caverns.

Fain has the right of it. And errors are made, on the rare occasion. Wise Lady is blatantly a typo/error, as HELP NEKOTAI states something completely contrary to what she claims.

And yet, she is the clearest answer that there is to the question existing in all of Lusternia. Even your response here is nowhere near as clear (full of "might bes" and "maybes"). Further, I would posit that as this is modern history and Lamella is more than old enough to have been around since before the birth of the Illithoid, she would know what she is talking about when she says that she passed the word along / says it was a sacred word to them.

Again, this would be known as "research". Which is the point of a scholarly work.

Edit: When I quoted there was no text in your quote to post, but still. Sure, there are contradictions... but as the research was based off of what Lamella says, I would not claim it is a lie / fabricated. There is actual IC reason to think this (error or not) at this point, no? One of the most prestigious mobs (spokesperson for a Great Spirit) states it as fact.

It's not based off of what Lamella says, it's based off of what Wise Lady says - two very different persons!

I give 'maybes' and 'might bes' because I prefer not to speak definitively. I can definitively tell you only bad things can come of Nekotai worshiping Scorpion in lieu of Crow/Night and and only bad things come of Ninjakari (or any mortal!) worshiping Illith (or any soulless god!), and a variety of such things.

And I'm not claiming it was a 'lie' or 'fabricated' - I'm simply pointing out it is in error. Blatantly.

Whatever it was, its different now. The monks there aren't carrying any weapons in their descriptions, and I like that quest, so I'm not going to kick one to find out either.

Better this way anyway. Players can revere what they want, and things are a little more open ended.

Besides, even having the possibility of a connection is way more than what the other monk guilds have. I mean, most people still aren't sure exactly what a shofa is. Let alone get to guess at where they came from.

Ok, so, OOCly, we know that there can sometimes be uh ohs with NPCs as far as the information they provide. But, ICly, where this book was supposed to have been written, how would any character know that? If a MOB who should be trusted as knowing what he/she is talking about says something about a subject, a character is going to trust it. Use it, quote it, etc.

So, it seems to me that saying that players shouldn't take everything MOBs say seriously is a little off. Not only are our characters not to know that, but MOBs talking about things is the basis of a lot of information, especially when the information about something is scarce. Take the trust in that away and that's a huge resource dried up.

It seems to me, that once a MOB says something, that's it. It's part of canon. Now, if it is wrong on an OOC level, that's fine, but instead of just expecting people to know that and characters to mistrust what should be trusted sources, something needs to be introduced to fix it. Some other trusted MOB who gives a contradictory statement maybe, or some more definitive official writing that states outright why this trusted individual is spreading false info.

I mean sure, one could interpret the Wise Woman's words in the way that she's just using the current name of the art 'Nekotai' when talking about something old that used to go by a different name. But how is any character to know that? Now, if she'd said, "What you call Nekotai...blah blah blah." That'd be one thing. And yes, that's prolly where the mistake is made. But again, how is a character supposed to realize that?

Right.

I would agree mainly as this allows you to maybe explore it as part of a distant past but it is not the future for the nekotai (in glomdoring)

Maybe something like... "We took the teachings of the scorpion for the glory of the wyrd"

Eeehhhh....

This isn't the first time MOBs have gotten stuff wrong. The admin aren't infalliable. Heck, even the IC divine aren't, information wise.

But, anyway, the ambiguity makes things like Janalon's work more interesting.

Before, she was essentially pointing at the daytime sky on a clear day and saying "the sky is blue". And apart from paradigmatics users deciding it was hot pink, nobody would say otherwise.

Now, she points at the sky during a cloudy night and says "if it were light and clear out, the sky would be blue". Regardless of whether or not she is correct, there's more of an interesting conversation to be had, other than,

"It sure is!"

And we know this on an OOC level. But, ICly, there needs to be something clearly stated that shows the MOB is mistaken or lying for some reason. Because, ICly, there are MOBs you just have to trust, even when OOCly, they're wrong.

And randomly making an NPC stop saying something does not mean it has never been said; it is, as far as characters are concerned who heard it, still fact. Heh.