Aerotan2010-05-28 01:46:03
As a general aside, since Estarra's post reminded me, Tahtetso are far from the only guild to have rough patches integrating into "the Light." As I recall, there was discussion of this being leveled against and toward the Aquas in their early days. Even now it's taking nudging, both subtle and significantly-less-than-subtle, to make sure that the Aquas coming in remember that we're about the Tides AND the Light, rather than instead of. As I recall, the Cantors tried the Lore-keepers route too, I'll need to ask Pectus how that's going sometime...
Unknown2010-05-28 01:48:31
QUOTE (Zalandrus Meyedsun @ May 27 2010, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I sympathize with the Nekotai situation. I don't have much else to say about it specifically, but I find it interesting how this is almost the opposite case of the Tahtetso, who formed its own philosophy but has ever since been trying to figure out how to integrate and be philosophically accepted by Celest. Though I never felt it, apparently there are/were Celestians who thought that the Tahtetso didn't really follow the Light, and truth be told, the Light was never a prominent part of the guild philosophy...
Letting players develop their own philosophies will inevitably lead to the admin needing to tweak many things, whether it be on their end or on the players' end...
Letting players develop their own philosophies will inevitably lead to the admin needing to tweak many things, whether it be on their end or on the players' end...
For what it is worth, I've always felt that Lumosis is one of the better wholly player-crafted guild backgrounds.
Kiradawea2010-05-28 02:03:22
QUOTE (Noola @ May 27 2010, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Was I disrespectful? I didn't think I was...
I don't think it's possible for you to be disrespectful.
Eventru2010-05-28 02:17:09
In the world of player-crafted ethos, Lumosis was always one of the ones that fit best into their 'org ethos' (imo - the Spiritsingers too, really, are way up there. The whole ancestral spirits thing has been around for a while, so it's nice to see someone sort of 'focused' on it). It ended up fitting snugly with a basis for one of the aspects of Celestine history (and by proxy Celest) that would come into play later on - the Saints of Celestia (Tresalyne, Gathlyn, etc) all followed the same basic 'idea' - they perfected themselves bodily and spiritually and drew in the Light to meld it with their souls, becoming something more than mortal and coming to - at least spiritually - dwell upon Celestia with the Supernal's themselves. Certainly, Lumosis is really - ICly - a new label for a very old and somewhat forgotten goal to strive for. It was the highest honour any devout worshiper of the Light could hope to achieve in their wildest daydreams.
I've always held the view that they simply maintain the ideologies and strive for what everyone else does, they simply follow different methods - viewing the Light as a spiritual body and font of spiritual awareness versus five kingly entities that represent a series of righteous and goodly ideologies. While the end result is the same, the means is different - the Celestines and Paladins might see the five Supernals as 'people', the Tahtetso may take a more spiritual approach and simply view them as manifestations of the great and glorious Light. No less reverent of them, it's their nature (remember the Half-Formed became deeply attached to their creches with the loss of the Song, and they're semi-divine to boot) that probably draws the Tahtetso in their pursuit of spiritual enlightenment and growth.
Phew, mouthful.
I've always held the view that they simply maintain the ideologies and strive for what everyone else does, they simply follow different methods - viewing the Light as a spiritual body and font of spiritual awareness versus five kingly entities that represent a series of righteous and goodly ideologies. While the end result is the same, the means is different - the Celestines and Paladins might see the five Supernals as 'people', the Tahtetso may take a more spiritual approach and simply view them as manifestations of the great and glorious Light. No less reverent of them, it's their nature (remember the Half-Formed became deeply attached to their creches with the loss of the Song, and they're semi-divine to boot) that probably draws the Tahtetso in their pursuit of spiritual enlightenment and growth.
Phew, mouthful.
Janalon2010-05-28 02:28:13
Grandmother Scorpion was never a part of Glomdoring. That fact is quite explicitly stated through further conversation with the Wise Lady:
She is alone. She wishes to remain alone. This claim is further supported by the entire quest of the Old Ones (no spoilers here). Also through the Wise Lady's explanation of Tzaraziko's discovery of Scorpion:
And:
Not to mention foreshadowed through The Book of Elfenehoala where Scorpion runs away from Blooredi:
There is enough textural evidence that supports Grandmother Scorpion does not want to be found. She does not want direct contact with the world (examine the role of the Old Ones). Hence, she will not come and join the commune. In fact, that now-lost response to "Nekotai" was the only bit of evidence which would support that she was even aware of the Glomdoring Nekotai.
On a side note, please bring back the Nekotai conversation trigger for the Wise Lady. This action has the potential to unwind a tremendous amount of postulation and writing on the topic. In fact, this lack of response now has the potential to make my published work far more hypothetical, bordering on heretical...
Good thing the Nekotai does not outright worship Grandmother Scorpion. I've taken a great amount of care to orchestrate the Nekotai as a Cult intent on preserving the secrets of the Great Spirit Scorpion. Consider the very organization of the Cult:
CODE
You say, "Commune."
Wise Lady, Voice of the Grandmother says, "We have heard of the nature communes where Great Spirits like the Grandmother dwell. But Grandmother dwells alone, and we are content to be who we are, here with Her."
Wise Lady, Voice of the Grandmother says, "We have heard of the nature communes where Great Spirits like the Grandmother dwell. But Grandmother dwells alone, and we are content to be who we are, here with Her."
She is alone. She wishes to remain alone. This claim is further supported by the entire quest of the Old Ones (no spoilers here). Also through the Wise Lady's explanation of Tzaraziko's discovery of Scorpion:
CODE
Wise Lady, Voice of the Grandmother says, "The Scorpion hid from the destruction around Her, and Tzaraziko found the Scorpion in Her loneliness."
And:
CODE
Wise Lady, Voice of the Grandmother says, "All we ever wished was to be left alone... And we will be left alone, at any cost."
Not to mention foreshadowed through The Book of Elfenehoala where Scorpion runs away from Blooredi:
CODE
"Come back here, damn you!" screamed Blooredi, rage warring with embarrassment.
"Bloo," whispered Bollikin soothingly. "She is newly formed, a child herself. Give her time to get to know you."
"How dare she defy me!" growled Blooredi. "None of your great spirits defy you!"
"We don't force them to do anything they don't want," said Viravain softly.
"But they obey you!" Blooredi said. "I have seen all of you throw it in my face often enough."
"That's not fair, Bloo," said Bollikin. "We are only happy to see you have created a Great Spirit. If our spirits obey us at all, it is only because they love us."
"Bah!" said Blooredi, turning to stare where Spirit Scorpion had disappeared to. "She'll do as I say or she will pay."
With that, Blooredi stomped off to find Spirit Scorpion.
"Bloo," whispered Bollikin soothingly. "She is newly formed, a child herself. Give her time to get to know you."
"How dare she defy me!" growled Blooredi. "None of your great spirits defy you!"
"We don't force them to do anything they don't want," said Viravain softly.
"But they obey you!" Blooredi said. "I have seen all of you throw it in my face often enough."
"That's not fair, Bloo," said Bollikin. "We are only happy to see you have created a Great Spirit. If our spirits obey us at all, it is only because they love us."
"Bah!" said Blooredi, turning to stare where Spirit Scorpion had disappeared to. "She'll do as I say or she will pay."
With that, Blooredi stomped off to find Spirit Scorpion.
There is enough textural evidence that supports Grandmother Scorpion does not want to be found. She does not want direct contact with the world (examine the role of the Old Ones). Hence, she will not come and join the commune. In fact, that now-lost response to "Nekotai" was the only bit of evidence which would support that she was even aware of the Glomdoring Nekotai.
On a side note, please bring back the Nekotai conversation trigger for the Wise Lady. This action has the potential to unwind a tremendous amount of postulation and writing on the topic. In fact, this lack of response now has the potential to make my published work far more hypothetical, bordering on heretical...
Good thing the Nekotai does not outright worship Grandmother Scorpion. I've taken a great amount of care to orchestrate the Nekotai as a Cult intent on preserving the secrets of the Great Spirit Scorpion. Consider the very organization of the Cult:
CODE
                                      .<==+.
NOV    Sting      +-------+              \\\\  +-------+
COLÂ Â Â Â Â Â VÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | BLOOD |Â Â __Â Â /*-----._//Â Â | FAITH |
GR 1    Oblate    +-------+  >_)='-
NOV    Sting      +-------+              \\\\  +-------+
COLÂ Â Â Â Â Â VÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | BLOOD |Â Â __Â Â /*-----._//Â Â | FAITH |
GR 1    Oblate    +-------+  >_)='-
Furien2010-05-28 03:21:12
Man, I knew I considered Janalon the Nekotai's Lendren for a good reason.
Unknown2010-05-28 03:51:18
Janalon's Post of the Cult crits you for over 9,000 damage! She has broken the limit break!
Unknown2010-05-28 05:34:08
This really has no standing on anything at all with Glom but one way to make the Tahtetso and Cantors mesh is sort of a chant or song of light. The Tahtetso can be heard sort of chanting it because they already do chant in the monestary. And the cantors would have a tie into the light theme.
Jayden2010-06-06 10:40:33
QUOTE (Aerotan @ May 27 2010, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a general aside, since Estarra's post reminded me, Tahtetso are far from the only guild to have rough patches integrating into "the Light." As I recall, there was discussion of this being leveled against and toward the Aquas in their early days. Even now it's taking nudging, both subtle and significantly-less-than-subtle, to make sure that the Aquas coming in remember that we're about the Tides AND the Light, rather than instead of. As I recall, the Cantors tried the Lore-keepers route too, I'll need to ask Pectus how that's going sometime...
I hit a brick wall coming up with lore and ideas...
Siam2010-06-06 14:37:55
QUOTE (Jayden @ Jun 6 2010, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hit a brick wall coming up with lore and ideas...
Why not go for/brainstorm with a group for a general theme and spew ideas from there?
Kante2010-06-06 14:59:47
To be honest, when it comes to helping Bards and Monks 'fit in', I'm at a loss.
Anyone have any ideas to get the proverbial ball rolling?
Anyone have any ideas to get the proverbial ball rolling?
Siam2010-06-06 15:18:07
QUOTE (Kante @ Jun 6 2010, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To be honest, when it comes to helping Bards and Monks 'fit in', I'm at a loss.
Anyone have any ideas to get the proverbial ball rolling?
Anyone have any ideas to get the proverbial ball rolling?
With regards to monks, I've only ever played a tahtetso alt, and I think their lumosis idea is promising. My exposure to the nekotai's written works has me amazed at how developed their culture is.
I think the theme of each bard guild is also good:
SS-cold damage and ancestral spirit songs
Harbs-mana drain and bleeding with themes around the sounds heard in Glomdoring
Cacos-plague afflictions
Cantors-light theme/fire(?) damage
Among these guilds, I think the Cantors still have room for improvement. A comment made by friend who plays a main Celest was that the Cantors' skillset lacks a central theme inherent in the other bard guilds. I think this is true, because, from an outsider's standpoint, Starhymn incorporates Water Plane(Eversea), Celestia(Supernal songs), and Celest History(PrincessFarewell) in the skillset while lacking something that can unite them all. From what I recall, Necroscream also incorporates Earth Plane(Tainted songs), Nil(DL songs) and Magnagora History(?)(Undead themed songs) but they're all united by the central theme that is the plague afflictions. Maybe the Cantors can have doves(Rhapsody, flock of miracles) as a central theme, without copying the SS' ancestor summoning(dove summoning).
That's all I can contribute.