There are three of them and they claim to be brothers IRL (they don't seem to understand the concept of RP either). They made their characters pretty much one day after another. When the third one joined, he immediately said on CGT that he's blind so he won't be able to do anything we tell him. The next time #2 logged on, he suddenly became blind too, because it "runs in his family," even though they'd never mentioned this handicap before. Now, I know it's possible for blind people to play text MUDs, but I don't believe these 'brothers' are blind. In fact I'd be surprised if they are even brothers. I'm more inclined to think they're the same person, since they all have the exact same personality.

It's not just about being annoying, it's about lying, intentionally breaking even basic rules, refusing to do just about anything they're asked to do, and doing stupid things like attacking the Guardian of the Flame. I already did outguild the one who attacked the Guardian. He quit the commune and had joined Glomdoring literally one minute later. Then complained because he had to relearn his guild skills because I didn't wait until he graduated (even though you don't lose lessons from forgetting guild skills as a novice, so I actually did him a favour by not waiting).

Oh, this reminds me, I was going to make a thread asking if we can add GUILD STAT to the list of guild privs leaders get. There are many reasons this would be useful, but to give an example: Novice #1 of this group took on a trade skill and other silly stuff (beastmastery, aethercraft, combat, etc), but not the few listed in the CGHELP. Taking on a trade skill as a novice is against guild rules, mind you. When I asked why he did that, he said he was focusing on achievements so he could get enough lessons for it. I explained that's why we don't have them learn a trade skill yet, and had him forget tailoring so he could finish the guild starter lessons. Then he told me he had 800 lessons. If I could've seen that myself, the whole ridiculous waste of time wouldn't have happened.

I took forever to write that so there were some responses during that time I'd like to respond to...

You guys seem to be misunderstanding this person as being innocently ignorant. No, I have immense patience for that. This is deliberately going against everything they're told, being intentionally disrespectful, and everything is after being gently told the right way, so it's not ignorance. In fact, it's after being told five times because that's how many times it takes. After so many times of saying "I understand" and then doing the opposite, we're pretty tempted to say "okay, if you don't want to do anything we say, and throw tantrums, find someone else who will put up with you."

Innocent ignorance is understandable. This is not.

Well, that's rather different and definitely not what Sylphas was getting at.

If you feel they are multiplaying, well, that's the realm of the admin and you need to issue it.

Without having read the rest of the thread yet, my advice is, if they're ignoring you, well. let em. Just tell them that if they need anything, you'll answer their questions and then let them have their fun.

I was asking in a more generalized fashion, as I was curious to see how people dealt with it. I wasn't asking so much how to deal with this particular situation.

If you have the time, there was an old, old thread about novices. It might be gone now though. If you can find it, you'll see it happens every so often.

You don't lose the skills either way. There is no reason he should have had to relearn anything unless he changed classes.

Yeah, I realize that, it was more in regards to the comment of us thinking this was innocently ignoring you guys. We'd have no way of knowing, not having been there.

He didn't change class though. He's just... dumb, I guess?

Oh, no, I don't think they're multiplaying. They're not logged in at the same time.

Technically, they can learn whatever the hell they want, and you can't really do anything about it other than advise them otherwise.

But they still should follow the rules. I mean, hell, I COULD (that is, it's well within my ability) to do all number of rule-breaking or just plain stupid things, but it's not a good idea.

Well, reading the rest of the thread, my advice kind of still stands. Unless they're running around spouting obscenities or being horribly disruptive, just let em be as dumb as they want to be. Just make sure they know they won't advance until they do this and that. Then let them run free. They'll either get bored of it and start doing the things they're supposed to and be a lot happier for having been let to make their own way, or they'll continue and eventually not be novices anymore and you can kick them.

If they are being obscene or breaking TOS or whatever, then the Admin can handle it.

That's my advice anyway.

If a brand-new novice is behaving so badly that he or she warrants frustrated OOC discussion (such as this thread), it's probably a safe bet to guild-kick them and/or org-kick them. If they willfully ignore their org, their guild, and the people around them, it's rude, but forgivable. You can just let them be, and see what happens. Most people who behave that way won't be playing long in any case.

But if this is coupled with extended bouts of suspicious behavior, lying, monkeyshines (like attacking important denizens), refusing to remain IC, rudeness, or anything of that nature, kick away. Give them a few chances, and try to reason with them, but after that, bring the hammer down.

(My opinion, anyway.)

Out of curiosity, why is it a guild rule that novices aren't allowed to have a trade skill?

Most guilds practice very heavy paternalism (i.e. every good and reasonable idea becomes an inflexible rule). It's not a great idea for novices to spend a lot on trade skills.

In fact, it's a horrible idea. However, I think I recall the administration saying that guilds cannot REQUIRE someone to put their lessons into a certain skill.

To clarify, having exam requirements where you must know Skill A is not the same.

Not that horrible if the novice has advice from other players or even sponsership. Guild novice teachings are all based on bashing which makes it ill suited for people who for example only want to influence (or who already have credits). And I hope you are right about the admin stance on that. No player should be able to decide who can and can not have a trade skill.

If a novice intentionally ignores your attempts to teach/talk to them, it is best to leave them alone. If they are disruptive sure warn/punish them, if they are keeping to themselves and refuse to talk to you, just behave as if they snubbed you.

Novice #1 has gotten himself booted, and - surprise, surprise - went straight to Glom like his 'brother' before him. Shortly after this thread started, we learned he had killed the wolf of a fellow commune member, within Serenwilde, after claiming to have read the guild novice rules (which clearly state that they should not attack anything within the guildhall or Serenwilde, and explain how to probe things to make sure it's not loyal). He'd exhausted his chances. Now let's see how long it takes the third one...

Oh, I agree, it just seems a bit too restrictive to say they're not allowed to take any tradeskill at all. I can understand advising against learning any tradeskill lessons though.

If I had an awesome novice who wanted to learn a trade skill and knew what was what and all, I'd be inclined to not make a big deal out of it. But then, I do that for most every rule; I do what makes sense and if someone points out that I broke a rule or something, I say "Oh, my bad" and that's the end of it.