Ithaqua-like commune in Lusternia? Yes please! Especially if it's the Loboshigaru-spec commune. I swear, I will have an alt there faster than you can blink.

And @ Saran, I thought they were called "para-elements." It's how I remember them from DnD.

Perhaps, I've just always thought of earth, air, water, fire and spirit as base elements with any other element being a combination of those.

Personally I would put ice as water/earth but with mud there it would be weird to have two combinations of water and earth though if you think of ice in terms of snow then it kinda works. The other question I would have about these though is what type of org they would be, I don't think they would be communes because the commune signs are all nature elemental but at the same time I don't think they would be cities either.

*sigh* I'm already imagining the camps on the snow fields of the ice org

We already have ice and mud sections on the Water and Earth planes, accessible via Taerin.

I also feel like pointing out - every race you mentioned, Saran, is involved in the combat quest between the Mold/Undead legions in Cankermore. (Igasho, Loboshigaru, Taurian, Mugwump)

What a freaky coincidence.

I haven't been, but isn't it slush on the ice section?

If it is you could say that it is one of two water demi-planes. There could be an ice/snow plane with the taerin elemental planes functioning as links between the primary elemental planes and the... sub? elemental planes.

In this instance the water/ice section could represent the connection between the water and ice planes, with the presence of a Water Elemental Lord reflecting it's stronger connection to the water plane. It's not too difficult to imagine that there might be another plane connected to air that is just filled with blizzards and so with the similarity between these two separate elemental sub-sections there could be a location where they merge.


Yeah... I really wish this came up icly so I could write some theory about it.



Yeah... I would think it's because they aren't really tied to anything. I'm trying to go off memory, but some things that stand out to me immediately are snow valley, verasavir, castle djarrak(no idea about that spelling).

If by slush you mean enormous icebergs and glaciers floating about a frozen ocean, then yes, it's slush.

I don't know, I just remembered slush elementals(checks google and gets quotes 6) yeah there are slush elementals there.

I'm just sort of imagining the elemental planes as four circles at the moment each one overlapping with two others. These zones being just on the edge of the planes and could offer some explanations for why say... aeromancy and aquamancy have ice/snow abiliities. Cross elemental planes could be a stage between the basic elements and the combinations seen in ethereal and prime.

Wouldn't ice be a combination of Water and Air?

My point about the zone people are talking about is that it could be where water and air start to blend but it's still primarily water, there could be a similar but opposite area connected to air where air starts to mix with water.

Following this mud becomes the most interesting element, if memory serves (which it often doesn't) water and earth give light and dark essence rather than actual elemental essence (which is potentially a whole other conversation regarding the natures of the planes and the cosmic creches connected to them). In this case the essence of the mud plane could be comprised of both.

So Mud would be a mix?

Between "pure" light essence and "dirty" dark essence?

So a Mudblood would have mixed blood?

(See what I did there?)

Yes...

The possibility of a plane where the light and the taint are fused together is kinda cool though. Could be an abomination in the eyes of Celest and Magnagora... or maybe Mag will like them cause they're corrupted light.

This has already been explored. Klaymech is a mud Earth Lord, and considered the liaison between impure mortals (who contain hated water) and the purer Earth (which does not).

This statement implies that Klaymech has some connection to water that the other lords do not. Sayre(?) and Klaymech could represent these barest connections that their element has to a separate element, wether they know about or are willing to ever admit it is another thing completely.

This actually just raises more specific questions about Klaymechs existence really and actually makes me think that he does indeed have some type of connection to the water plane.

Ice is water.

So when will they release Icewynderkyl Forest?

In a way yes, but if you look at water correspondences you would rarely get ice corresponding to water strangely. You would actually be most likely to get earth.

Ice is a solid and primarily would be linked with winter connecting it to earth more (though with mud it's unlikely but serenwilde is linked to an "earth" astro sphere). However if you go purely lusternian, you also have the blizzard and cold type things that aeromancy has/had. Linking with the purely water based abilities mixed with ice/cold abilities in aquamancy.

Really, the debate is interesting but only Estarra could say for certain which is correct and well... I hope that there are elemental planes where they cross over and mix because I would find it more interesting.

No, no, no, Ice is a state of water. The said state is entered when there is insufficient energy to maintain water's watery liquid state.

It was destroyed.

So obviously this will be the desert commune, just not quite the type of desert that people were expecting. Though I still don't think there will be more communes.

oooh maybe some kinda weird magi/druid hybrids. Elementalism with a Hionmancy? spec and totems with a Wolf spec? they wouldn't be bound to a forest spirit because they don't have a forest but maybe wolf decided to hang out in the snow fields and they learn from him while also having a connection to an elemental plane.



Could work, though does this account for mist which is another state of water? Also we tend to see things that are lacking in essence becoming less physical if that's the case then ice subverts this by becoming, arguably, more physical. If you consider that all states of an element are expressions of the essence present within that particular state then ice could be highly focused/condensed water making Sayre a greater elemental lord with Klaymech being lesser.

If you argue that mist and ice both have low concentrations of water essence then what determines which side it falls on.

Unfortunately that is also where the ice = water + air sortof falls apart because neither are solids. If you were to really argue it, I would actually have Sayres zone being primarily water heading to earth elemental energies with Klaymechs being the other direction. The only issue with this being that then you have two earth+water elements.

Going towards air it would be more likely to show as rain perhaps from water to air, and mist from air to water. Though really, aeromancy to me comes off as more combinations of other elements (air+fire for electricity, air+water for clouds and a very faint combination of air+water+earth for blizzards)

Ice, mist, and steam are still water. The change in state does not diminish their being water. The thing is, they're all water.

What is mud then?