Your resources!

Guard the timestream so that nobody manages to go back and kill them before they became Gods!

You know the best thing about Vortex? I don't have some idiot Supernal telling me to go kill all the fae in Faethorn. Or some psuedo queen of the Morribles that can't remember her name from one minute to the next, let alone anything else she says.

Our Cosmic plane is awesome in the fact that it's just a place to dump entities and get body parts to make morribles with.

You need those spheres. You have a whole guild dedicated to the study of the artifacts of Continuum. No one else can do that, and they're irreplaceable.

Why have any guardians at all? I mean, Methrenton is supposed to embody kicking butts. Why do you worry about protecting him? What do demons have to do with the philosophy of Nil? No guardian guild has ever been about guarding stuff.

EDIT: And what's wrong with sentimentalism? We protect priceless treasures at ridiculous expense. Those're the spheres of Continuum! They're a big deal!

Just because you're archetype is Guardian doesn't mean your whole role revolves around guarding the appropriate Cosmic Plane. The Illuminati aren't guarding the Fleshpots--we're growing them to harvest. Vortex is totally a farm for us--there is no worship of the Fleshpots.

Our identity is totally and completely separate from our Cosmic Plane--it doesn't define us, its merely a place that we are learning to control.

Oh god Gregori, DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS.

This is something I'm actually trying to write about IG right now. In my eyes, each Sphere represents a component of balance in regards to temporal existence. They may be a fundamental part of why the Matrix can even exist, and that would explain it's intrinsic link to the flow of time.

If those Spheres were to be destroyed, well...you can just imagine what would happen. I think that makes a very good reason to guard them. Is my train of thought going in the right direction, or am I just missing the bigger picture?

You know the great thing about science? The world is flat.

If you can write and RP a hypothesis that works for you, then go for it. Who cares if it isn't Canon or maybe some admin down the road will say "the world is actually a polyhedron." Until proven wrong, you are right and if you can rp and argue it well enough you can have others go along with it too!

So in short... yes you are going in the right direction IMO.

Okay. I'll try discussing some ideas, then. I think the Institute can be a really cool guild if we just get creative with what we have. The only thing that sits uncomfortable in my stomach is hoping we don't try to build up a bunch of lore and have it shot down like Nekotai did with Grandmother Scorpion.

For the record, me neither. Perhaps those could be replaced.



I was almost taking you seriously, then you made the mistake of actually implying that Continuum was comprehensible in any kind of form or fashion.



Actually, no, we don't have a whole guild dedicated to the study of 'the artifacts of Continuum'. Nobody knows what the hell the Spheres are, what the polyhedrons are, or what the relationship between those two and Continuum actually is. Furthermore, it's been pretty explicitly stated (by Estarra no less) that Institute currently pulls most of its RP flavour from Aeonics, with the overall structure being like that of a real-life academic institute. Perhaps the most iconic relationship is between Hallifax's technology and the Institute, who are supposed to have built it all. It actually feels like a kind of stupid and trite farming effort. Endlessly recycling gems through the Master Crystals so they become MAGIC gems with MAGIC properties so we can do MAGIC things. Or something.



I don't get it.



Because if there's one thing lucidian scientists are known for, it's their illogical sentimentality when it comes to shiny objects.

EDIT: Manners. - Mods

I really doubt that the base 12 gemstones are going to be changed into something other than spinning gemstones. I would also like to note that it would be much, much preferable if the room message was changed to something like "Roark is here. Spinning around his head are N crystals." Where N is the total number of crystals. Then you can look at them if you want to find out exactly what those crystals are, if you care.

Polyhedron crafting would be highly awesome. They should probably be utility skills, for the most part, since harmonics doesn't have any active utility skills besides convoke and heartstone. As would be crystal gagets of some sort.

The AB files should be changed to have something to do with the sphere titles. Examples follow:

-The turquoise gems from the Sphere of Flux Transmutation will create a field which will transmute dangerous and chaotic effects into harmless ones, thereby absorbing some damage.
-The diamond gems from the Sphere of Axiomatic Supremacy weaves shields which are as impenetrable as the axioms of natural law. Magical methods of voiding or nullifying these shields will remove them and movement changes the situations and negates the shield untill a new axiom can be formulated.
-The bloodstone gems from the Sphere of Quantitative Symmetry force the bodies of your enemies into perfectly symmetric shapes, causing internal bleeding as their organs shift inside of them.

Obviously, this should probably wait untill the gem effects are set in stone, for the most part. There is no reason to spend time writing up a fluff reason for the Onyx Gem of Quantized Equilibrium to make people get sick if it isn't actually going to do that in the future.

This is why you are awesome!

OK, so I'm pretty sure that this:



...plus this...



...would completely solve 95% of the problems people seem to have.

Just to clarify, Harmonics is already pretty damn awesome! Not being a fighter, and not having Harmonics yet, my impression is that rubies are a useful kill strategy, resonance is a clever and strategic addition which affects the whole skillset, and passive buffs are always nice. Not to mention the massive synergy between Harmonics and Aeonics! I think the complaints stem from the fact that lots have people have been waiting with bated breath literally for years for these skillsets and concepts, and there's always going to be some minor disappointment, because it can't be everything to everyone.

Thank you, Estarra, for these awesome guilds and skillsets. Thank you even more for being super-reasonable and listening to feedback about your baby. (Especially vague and demanding player feedback!)

Talk to your children about double posts, before somebody else does.

EDIT #2: Aloysha, those brainstorms are quality. Write them up for the whole skillset, when it seems worth it, and submit via Envoys. Please.

Gotta wait until we've actually worked out what the new gem effects would be, since I like the suggestion of combining the ego/mana drain/regen gems, so you've one gem to both drain enemy mana and restore your own mana, for example. Either that or combine the drain mana and ego into one gem and the regen mana and ego into another gem. Either way, we're going to have a few spares to work with.

I'm reminded a lot of Aeromancy. I recall the similar overwhelming omnidirectional tirade of 'HEY, AEROMANCY IS FINE, LEAVE IT AS IS, YOUR HEALING IS TOTALLY OVERPOWERED' until I'd actually beaten the horse to death and we got something that, everyone now agrees, is an improvement upon something that was initially lackluster. Just saying. If I seem stubborn, it's because it's worked once before.



Honestly, this isn't supposed to be a 'bitch about the new stuff' thread, I'm thrilled we've new orgs and guilds. It just keeps coming back to me, or Saran, or Arel, or whoever, having to reiterate the fact that we could actually probably do with a little direction. The problem is that some people, for some reason, seem to be absolutely enamored with not adding to, improving upon, or changing what we've been presented with. Including people whose characters aren't even tangentially related to the things I'm talking about. If I've still not slept in the next 12 hours, I'll be just paranoid enough to start accusing people of sabotage. At any rate, I am taking notes. We've definitely got some constructive ideas here.

That's what I meant by 'when it seems worth it'. Sorry to be unclear.

Hm. Well, I've just kind of skimmed through the thread, but I think someone (Xavius?) touched well on the topic.

I suspect Estarra's not saying, "Don't worship it!", but rather, "There's nothing to worship."

If I were to play an institute player, and someone asked me my opinion of Continuum, I'd tell them a lot like what (Xavius?) suggested - it's beautiful, it's perfect, it's harmonic.

And it's a really kick-butt place that we could probably do some really cool experiments in, especially relating to time, space, etc.

The fleshpots aren't infant gods, they're what Dynara made gods from (so she took a some flesh from Flahti and made x body part, some flesh from Lovashi made y body business, etc etc) and crafted it together and, somehow, managed to do something and make templates of creation, some of which grew up into half-formed and then Elder Gods. So sure - I could certainly see a gnosis view of mimicking Dynara, growing closer to Yudhe, the All Father, the Father of Creation and Destruction, Everything and Nothing, etc etc. It's certainly an argument of a means reaching (and metaphysical embodiment of) Enlightenment. Not saying this is 'right' or 'wrong', but I could certainly see that argument.

As for the spheres on Continuum, they aren't sentient, thinking, breathing, soul-blessed things. They're.... Well. I don't think it's actually been said yet. I wouldn't really call them 'anomalies' though.

Neither plane has 'sentient' life, neither has fallow templates (angels), that sort of thing. I think you're taking 'guardian' a bit too literally, as though they're physically guarding something. I think someone pointed out that it's more of a spiritual thing - the Celestines don't really protect the physical embodiment of the Light (aka Celestia and the Supernals), but instead are the guardians of the values thereof. They're supposed to be spreading the Light, sharing its beauty with the world, uniting everyone under the very noble ideals of love, mercy, righteousness, hope, life, defense of the innocent, etc etc. Likewise the Nihilists espouse all of those really horrific ideas of pain and suffering, domination, wrath, yadda yadda.

Whereas Gaudiguch seeks spiritually enlightenment and the illuminati could be said to be 'guardians' of that spiritual journey to awareness of the soul and getting in touch with that 'cosmic oneness' (or whatever hooey you want to call it. That's right! I said it! Hooey! ), if I were to really take a swing at what the Institute is, well.

And I just feel I need to stress, -if it were me-, I'd look at the Institute much like I would Continuum. It's very... soulless. Not big 's' Kethuru/Muud/etc, but little s - there's no real 'life' to it. There's some floating polygons that beep at you and flash colours but otherwise don't interact with their environment except to remove those that would disturb its balance, its peace, its harmony. It's certainly beautiful and lovely, but it's like looking out and seeing nothing but snow as far as the eye can see - no trees, no animals, just snow. It's awe-inspiring, yes, but it's very.... Empty. Again, just my opinion, but I've always viewed the Institute as having substituted such illogical, unsubstantiated hooey (I said it again! ) as spirituality with something 'real' and quantifiable - AKA, science.

And (I -think-) there's at least some sense of 'idea' towards what the spheres are 'associated' with, so to speak - at least on our end (for people who are far more involved than I!). I know there was a particular reason that the Diamond Sphere is the only sphere that accepts fae, for instance (well, it was probably 'because Estarra said so', but that tends to be an indication of an underlying thought there!).

If you're looking for something to 'worship' in the Institute, you're really probably out of your league, heh. The only thing the Institute 'should' (in my opinion!) adhere to are the very basic laws of science. I think this was reinforced with the Institute's motto (which I don't remember off-hand). I mean, if someone suggested I revere the spheres as anything other than big crystals that have some purpose that we've twisted to our own means, I'd probably laugh coldly and produce my 50 page thesis paper on why reverence for anything but quantifiable scientific proof is illogical and grounds for a mental examination (BTW, I just finished my dectorate in surgery. Labotomy, anyone?)!

If nothing else... You're guardians of 'science' versus the Illuminati, being guardians of 'spirituality' and 'philisophy' (And I use this in the rather... Well. I think you get what I mean! The illuminati strike me as the sort of people who look at basically an unfinished product and see all these big things. "Oh look! This one's all eyes! That means it can -seee into your soooull-" kind of thing. Is it there? Well, it isn't to you or me, but they might see it. Reminds me of the 5 stones in the Principia Discordia, and it asks if they make a pentagram or a five-pointed star, etc. They're just 5 stones, I tell you! They just read too much into it.)

I think that would explain the nine pointed star.

The Aneristic would say that it makes up a pentagon. The Eristic would say that it also makes up a star. Or something like that. There are no rules anywhere, the Goddess prevails!

My take: the Institute is connected to the Continuum plane like a scientist is connected to his test chimp. The plane of Continuum contains a rather diverse amount of artifacts of a previous age (the Spheres, the plyhedrons, etc) - its very existence poses questions that many scientists would LOVE to study, if you translate them broadly enough. "What or who came from Continuum? How did it happen? Can we engineer the process again?" - or "Is it possible that the remains of this once-living Plane contain something we could use to replicate the process in a controlled environment?" or "what can we learn from the remains of this creche?". The Institute care about Continuum because in a way, Continuum provides an unending project to them, a question that they may or may not ever be able to answer, a constantly thing to study and learn from, proving that knowledge is infinite.