One day Raezon will civilize you silly lot. Untill then, I'll sit and wonder why all of the cool gods are never the ones that are particularly active.

Just because Serenwilde does it to Illithoid doesn't mean its less jacked for Mag to do it. Its jacked in either scenario because it needlessly limits people. Discriminate and be racist all you want, but flat out refusing to let them play at all is not cool or fun in any way.

And Samhaim.. that's not true. The Ninjakari GHELPS say either they reincarnate or they are outguilded. Unless you guys changed the rules in the past few weeks.

Except it makes complete and logical RP sense to do so. It isn't jacked, it isn't unfair, and it most definitely is completely fine to do considering everybody gets a free reincarnation. Honestly, it also cuts down on 'special unique little snowflake' RPs, and the times those are good are few and very, very far between. I believe the Paladins have a policy on Viscanti never achieving knighthood or something, and that they are free to fight for the Light so long as they understand they will have to kill themselves once the fight has been ultimately won, and ICly I questioned if that was a little lax as a Squire.

That too .


I'm with Raezon.



I need to rephrase what I said. All advancement is halted until they make a choice: which is they either reincarnate or leave. We only do this to people that join when no one is around to tell them otherwise, which is something that hasn't happened for quite some time.

We don't ninja kick people without warning them first (ha, I said "ninja kick").

I don't see how it makes complete and logical RP sense.

In Magnagora's case, there is no reason they wouldn't want to enslave/abuse the "lesser" races. If you can use an elfen or kephera as fodder, why not?

In Celest's case, why is it unreasonable to allow a viscanti to be a soldier so long as they prove themselves to be willing to fight against the Taint?

The whole idea of Reincarnation is totally misused ICly. The idea of reincarnation is that you made a mistake in what race you were when the Fates ask you. It shouldn't be something that's used as an excuse to sidestep RP. "Well, they can just reincarnate, so its okay!" That's crap. ICly, if they are really a Viscanti, then they shouldn't be able to reincarnate. You guys just use it as an excuse to avoid some potentially interesting stuff.

I mean, saying an Viscanti is always evil just because they were born Viscanti is totally stupid. And to say an elfen can't be allowed in your guild, but an entire forest full of them is good enough to be your allies is also ridiculous. Why can there be situations where Elfen + Viscanti can do their super team up schtick, but not one where a Viscanti is allowed to be a member of the commune?

If an Illithoid wants to try and find Harmony by joining the Shofangi, then why not? Its blatantly obvious that not all Illithoid are evil, so why treat them OOCly as if they are? The response of "Reincarnate or get out" is not at all RP. What the Paladins do is RP, because it actually provides a means for something interesting to happen. All the Ninjakari or Seren policies do is prevent things from happening without a good reason.

I think it's a mistake to call what is obviously an RP move of 'we have x race so you can't join us' not RP.

It strikes me as a bit presumptuous.

I mean I am all for snowflake RP, but your snowflake RP < organization's RP.

Actually, I think it is because they lack a soul, and were imprisoned by the Kephera because of that. And the Kephera were the original shofangi.

Or something like that, not entirely sure.

This is true, but Viscanti are always Tainted and Illithoid are always Soulless, and org conflict tends to revolve more around these forces at work than principles that someone might pick up or develop on their own.

So, I do think it's interesting to have a self-loathing Viscanti who wants to eradicate Taint from the world (this actually reminds me of a Chappelle's Show skit), but they -are- the Taint, and if an organization is dedicated to the Taint's destruction, it does make sense not to let them in or have any real power. And vice-versa.

I can't seem to find the particular clause that says this, but I remember reading in Celest's laws that viscanti are allowed to become citizens, but they will need someone else to give them power from the Pool of Stars, so as to avoid tainting the nexus. It's not a matter of good or evil, really. Besides, if they were so willing to fight the taint, then they'd kill themselves and reincarnate; being tainted is pretty much exactly what makes someone a viscanti.

They can, but they're subject to an additional set of rules that are similar to Magnagora's in their treatment of Merians, Elfen, and Kephera(?). The only difference between Celest's "no drawing from the Nexus" rule and Magnagora's is that you can arrange for a Celestian to take you up to Astral and link from a node whereas you'll probably get zero help from Magnagora.

However, if you are a newbie and have a reincarnation, then you will be strongly encouraged to reincarnate; so, these rules mainly apply to older ex-Magnagorans who can't reincarnate rather than newbies fresh from the Portal. You'll probably be so hassled to reincarnate as a newbie, that most of them just cave and reincarnate.

This is a case of ingrained org RP, almost to a mechanical level. The argument you're making, while amusing, is just a step or two away from,

"Seren shouldn't love nature, its crap. Its forcing its will on the world to not be a polluted wasteland. Seriously."

Edit- actually, its not even that. You're making an RP argument (viscanti are/are not inherently thus) on the forums, which you can do... but you could also do in game.

I hate the sad mistake people make of confusing being interesting with being unique.

Instead of being something trite and implausible like the half-crystalline trill child of an adventurous lucidian mother, whose fragile wings are made of crystal and are too heavy to fly and can tell when it's going to rain and turn red when you cry (actually that does sound quite interesting), why not put that much effort into playing something "normal" in an interesting way? Lusternia does not lack for inspiration or support in this regard.

Actually... when the Soulless first attacked Lusternia, Illith was the first soulless to penetrate its defenses and she tried to consume the very core of Lusternia. Keph was expecting her and they fought for months, until Keph was finally defeated, but Illith was cut in two. The irrational part was the one that escaped to the surface (and cut Orlachmar in half in the process) and was later imprisoned by the Vernal Gods.
The sentient part was trapped underground by the shards of Keph, the Kephera.
To cut a long story short, after some time Illith splintered into the Illithoids, and the Kephera and the Illithoids have been fighting ever since.

So yeah, it makes sense for the Illithoids and every guild associated with them to hate the Kephera.

EDIT: Sorry, that was too harsh.

Keph didn't lose, what. >:(

Keph didn't split immediately: in fact, the illithoid split first (I believe in response to the presence of the illith-templates above, during the Taint-goes-away-Taint-comes-back event) and the kephera split due to that.

From the Elder Book of Urlachmar:

Not true.

The Kephera Empire is many thousands of years old.

The illithoid are maybe a hundred (however long since the Undervault's release). The opening of the Undervault was in response to the illithoid splintering - prior to that, the Kephera ruled quietly and peacefully over the entire Undervault, maintaining the seal on Illith's prison.

Edit: And Keph wove a psychic web across the undervault, which was why Meridian could not sense her. Similarly, it is why Muud was hidden beneath the Undervault, and why everything that's gone on down there for so long has been undetected.

Oh dear, did I start a new argument?

Yep, there is a book in the Ninjakari library about how and why Illith splintered. And a book written in the first person about what Illith was feeling and thinking when She was imprisoned, and why She finally decided to splinter. Good book. Sent shivers down my spine while I was reading it.