I think that the problem might be that when six people go to fight and five of them are in this clan and one of them is not and all the "target this person" "I'm about to summon this person" "this person is ready for this attack" and so on goes over that clan's CLT, then the sixth man is just twiddling his thumbs, not knowing who to target until it's too late, not able to coordinate his attacks properly, not able to reconnect with the group quickly cause he missed the "gather at the place" that went out over CLT.

So, he feels left out, ignored and like he didn't get to contribute, the other five think he's a joke cause he wasn't able to keep up and next time there's a call for fighters, maybe he says, "Screw it."

Seems to me, if your org has an official clan set up for fighting, that's the clan you should be using to coordinate all your fighting. So then, everyone can join. Not just a few.

What loth said peashooter is a multiple organization clan. In regards to the ur'guard you were talking about was that the one you asked me personally to help? In regards to warrior combat there is only so much one can do to help another on how to do it. IE. An explanation of wounds how they work combinations of wounds and poisons to use to achieve locks and effective tactics. On the other hand it is up to the individual to find what it is they are comfortable with combatwise and what works best for them to be effective. I can tell you that building wounds on the head is the best route to go to behead someone but you have to know what to look for offensively and watch your opponents healing/parrying/stancing to find the best route to get those wounds built up because it most likely won't be the same for every person if you know what I'm saying and that's where the explanation part and the self learning process starts.

Again there are a lot of people in peashooter and pretty well anyone that fights or shows an interest in fighting with the aligned orgs are in it. There's also scry enchants for finding locations of people, thirdeye, paying attention to who is being hit watching what is happening to them and planning your attacks accordingly because let's face it, it's hard as hell to read clan chat in combat spam so that really is a hard thing to base an argument on myself for example- I don't keep up with clan chat in fights. I pick a target and go to town or if I see the whole group is focusing on one person I target them. In time you will learn target priority and be able to judge who should be targeted at any given time. Common sense.

plus, Legion is full of alts and spies.

Srsly

Exactly.

In my opinion, Midnight Legion should be reformed into a group combat school to help people recognize what's going on, which of their skills are useful in a group situation, etc. What Vathael's talking about.

Targeting, at least, is done on the squad aether, anyway.

I don't know how many times a raid has been formulated on the Midnight Legion, and we get there, and there's already a meld with people waiting to kill us.

Okay. But if Midnight Legion is compromised and therefore shunned, you should probably ensure that people (including relatively new players) who seem legitimately active in Magnagora and interested in combat are given access to Jhagar.

If (notice the use of "if"; I have no way of knowing firsthand) Jhagar is reserved only for good ol' boys, then quite frankly, Jello may have a point, even if he's exaggerating.

I find it more likely that ML will be reformed and used, instead of everyone invited to Jhagar - it's a private clan/cartel/group/whatever and can be as selective as it chooses. Not to mention, the city has no jurisdiction over it whatsoever.

That's funny, I had written a more verbose post saying basically the same thing, because that's certainly not an issue that's unique to Magnagora. And then I deleted it because it sounded paranoid, even to me, but it's true to an extent. Getting burned a couple of times will definitely cause people to close ranks, and because it's an ooc thing that happens, it's handled in an ooc fashion, by limiting the flow of information to people that you, mostly, ooc-know and ooc-trust to be definitely playing on your team. I'm not really sure what else can be done for that.

With this said it's certainly not true that all alts exist for the purpose of feeding information to their main characters or friends in enemy orgs. These others, who are just there to play, will likely be the ones that do follow the deathsights and show up to help. I'm sure no one who comes to Celestia during a raid is going to be turned away for not being in jhagar. The problem is that new and less experience players might not have the navigational or planar skills to get there. Maybe once the secret is out, you could make more of an effort to switch your coordination to a place where everyone can hear it.

Not sure why Jhagar is getting such focus. I know most of the orgs have a closed membership combat clan. As has been said, too many people alt'ing who don't care about boundaries that are willing to relay attack/sensitive information, too many people who are just loud mouths, and too many people that just don't fit the bill. All armies throughout history have been this way as well. You have the dirty masses that are made for just plowing through objectives, and then you have the SF types that separate themselves and avoid the "regular" people.

That sort of thing is against the rules and punishable (severely I hope), but I guess it's difficult to detect. It really pisses me off that people's willingness to illegally spy harms the game for me and others with a modicum of scruples.

Speaking for myself, I was inactive for most of last month, and I haven't really gotten into combat yet. I've been a member of Glomdoring's official combat clan for a while, though. Not once have I seen a raid planned or announced on that channel — or, for that matter, on any other channel I have access to. I only know about raids if and when I see telltale trigger messages cropping up.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that the meat of combat planning and coordination is taking place somewhere else. I've always just assumed that when I do become more active in combat (which I will; I have other priorities at the moment, though), I could speak to and/or approach the right people, participate in a number of fights, and then be placed in the loop... whatever that loop may be.

But if I weren't placed in the loop, I'd eventually grow frustrated and stop fighting. That's why, if a big part of Magnagora's loop is inside of Jhagar, I don't think it's healthy to keep people out "because it's private." But that's just my opinion.

Edit: I realize it's been said that ML could be reformed, and if that actually solves the problem on more than a temporary basis, then that's good.

It's difficult to actually consider what the loop is though, I think it's fine that coordination and planning starts off quietly and privately first, then the bulk of the operation is carried out (via the triggers, target order, etc) on the IC org defense clan.

I can't really speak for anyone else, but I try very hard to make sure that all the 'target this guy, x person is decapping me' and all that combat stuff is made on our guard clan, because I know not everyone is part of the private clan and I don't want to exclude people who want in on pk further. IIRC, the last raid I remember, it was Sidd, Albiorix, and 3 midbie glom near-novices who went into Etherwilde (Alianna quoted it on old tweets), they can't have taken those midbies if all the planning was done on another clan.

Also I'm not sure if it's a big deal, but I find that a lot of times, invitations to raid aren't called out on the guard clan because the raiders like going in with a smaller group, instead of the big bad Zerg ™.

If I was cynical, I'd say that's because when you do the huge zerg, Magnagora and Gaudiguch show up and make it more of an actual fight.

I'm under the assumption that alt spying isn't allowed since it is OOC info relaying, but then again it is a pretty hard thing to combat since even if you have administrator types monitoring ingame communication there are still so many ways to communicate out of character.

Now playing another mmo (EVE Online) where a similar situation is formed by the militias for each faction containing spies, there is a lot you can do without shutting people out. In fact imho shutting people out is the worst you can do. Why? First off, the enemy will probably have the numbers, since they will announce defense on the city aether, or the guilds will get warnings from the npc's depending on which plane you raid. Furthermore if people are in the clan it is a lot easier to see who is the bulk of your force and rally them quickly. Speed and efficiency are important when dealing with spies, they will generally take longer because information has to be relayed and a defense group has to be made. And then another advantage of having people in a clan is that it becomes easier to monitor them. That guy who is always around but never in raids? Talk to him. Either he is unsure about things and training him up gains you another combatant, or obvious spy is being rather obvious. Not all of them are ever going to be that obvious though, and sometimes not even your gut feeling is going to pick it up, but there is also the factor to keep in mind that each spy in your group is a combatant less on the other side.

In the case alt spying is allowed then I'm simply going to say fight fire with fire. See the more spies is less combatants thing. It'll balance itself out. Yeah, I know, the other side might have 2x time your numbers, but proper training of the numbers you do have can make all the difference. Unless they have 2x time the amount of skilled teachers. But let's not go there

A few times I've heard little nubs announcing over CT "Hey, I have a feeling that is going to raid soon. A friend told me." If it starts again, I'll have ISSUE macro'd. That kind of crap is detrimental to the game in the worst ways.

Calixa, alt character spying is most certainly not allowed in Lusternia.

The rules very clearly state that if you have alts, you're held to a higher standard than those who don't, and that you aren't supposed to abuse your situation. Logging in on Janet the Moondancer to relay tactical information to Glomdoring falls solidly into that category.

It's incredibly difficult to detect or prove, however, so the rest of us will just have to suffer the consequences (not that those are hugely earth-shattering, but still).

It's also pretty worthless as an informational outlet, since we just assume Glom is going to raid us pretty much 24/7 anyway. I do, at least.

It doesn't really matter how many people we take, Gaudi and Mag will show up whenever they decide to, which in turn leads to more Gloms showing up etc. I've definitely been in raids with just Celina and me and Mag and/or Gaudi comes rolling in.

As far as planning raids OOCly, it happens for sure, because you don't want everyone and their brother tagging along because then no one will come out to play with you. If a big raid, such as DL or Avatar raid is being planned (something that's more than just, 'lets hit etherwilde') we definitely plan it out over Swarm ahead of time. That's the main difference, sometimes you just want a smaller raid, in fact that raid on etherwilde yesterday starting with just me and Alb, and people saw my announcements over swarm and came and joined in.

Well, yeah, that's a given . This was more back in the time when Magnagora was at war with Serenwilde. I'm like "Hmm, you're a nub, and the only time you ever log in is to tell us there is going to be a raid. My my, your timing is impeccable."