Simple Questions 2

by Eventru

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2011-04-21 13:20:30
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Talan2011-04-21 13:41:13
QUOTE (Vendetta Morendo @ Apr 21 2011, 06:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Currently, it is 78/78 at 700 weight of tattoos, keeping in mind that it has been going up only at the 100 point increments. Whether the last 59 will make any difference or not will be determined later.

I feel like I have to be misunderstanding. Are you saying they get the equivalent of 78 stat armour for up to 7 damage types (plus a bit more for the last 59 points)? Or is it 78/78 for blunt/cutting + 20 DMP for other types? Where did this 78 number come from, by the way?
Veyrzhul2011-04-21 14:01:02
QUOTE (Talan @ Apr 21 2011, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I feel like I have to be misunderstanding. Are you saying they get the equivalent of 78 stat armour for up to 7 damage types (plus a bit more for the last 59 points)? Or is it 78/78 for blunt/cutting + 20 DMP for other types? Where did this 78 number come from, by the way?


There is no armour as such against anything but cutting and blunt, and the most important aspect of armour is the wound protection, although it can considerably reduce (physical) damage, too. However, in addition to the armour rating, monks can also get up to 20 dmp against cutting and blunt damage.
Shamarah2011-04-21 14:07:35
QUOTE (Rainydays @ Apr 21 2011, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Geeze, one should only hope. The whole tattoo thing is kinda making me wary of the changes. Even more DMP and such impacting knights, meaning we have to get offensive tattoos just to counter balance, while affliction based classes are free to ignore the damage stuff and load up on other tattoos with their weight. Throw in tattoo monks running around in near-non-master plate armour, and you get a situation where we're not going to be able to reliably hinder them enough before the momentum train runs us over.

...which often happens anyway.

Maybe its time to ditch that knight miss rate for combat finally at least?


Really, against most classes you will gain more from the damage buff runes than you lose from the enemy's DMP runes due to the way DMP works. The vast majority of classes will already be in tier 2 for physical DMP on the basis of class abilities alone (for example, Stoneskin is 24 DMP, pushing mages into tier 2 by itself). So they will only gain 5% resistance from the 10 DMP tattoos, whereas you, assuming you don't have any other damage buffs besides War (you probably don't) will gain 10% damage since your buffs are still in tier 1. It's even more striking for classes in tier 3, like Wiccans, who will gain only 3.33% from each tattoo.

tl;dr stop playing the victim

PS. that armor rate sounds completely insane and I have to wonder if it's a miscalculation. Tattoo armor should obviously be worse than splendors considering the DMP bonuses they get to make up for it.
Unknown2011-04-21 14:14:41
QUOTE (Veyrzhul @ Apr 21 2011, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is no armour as such against anything but cutting and blunt, and the most important aspect of armour is the wound protection, although it can considerably reduce (physical) damage, too. However, in addition to the armour rating, monks can also get up to 20 dmp against cutting and blunt damage.


And afflict faster, more reliably, and just as severely as knights. Oh, and they get an artifact level shield rune equivalent. And most of them dodge!



(in case you are the oblivious type and can't guess, I'm implying knights feel like the guy on the right.)

Lehki2011-04-21 14:36:10
Why do my vials sometimes randomly jump around in order? I have them all organized on potion list, then some days I log in and they are all mixed up randomly.
Veyrzhul2011-04-21 15:03:05
QUOTE (Lehki @ Apr 21 2011, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why do my vials sometimes randomly jump around in order? I have them all organized on potion list, then some days I log in and they are all mixed up randomly.


There was a fairly recent maintenance downtime; after that, they probably got sorted by number?
Arel2011-04-21 15:25:29
QUOTE (Veyrzhul @ Apr 21 2011, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There was a fairly recent maintenance downtime; after that, they probably got sorted by number?

That usually happens for downtimes and crashes, for me. All my items end up sorted in my inventory by their item number.
Eventru2011-04-21 21:04:30
QUOTE (Shamarah @ Apr 21 2011, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
PS. that armor rate sounds completely insane and I have to wonder if it's a miscalculation. Tattoo armor should obviously be worse than splendors considering the DMP bonuses they get to make up for it.


Tattoo armour was intended to be around on-par with splendours at trans tattoo - a non-TattooMaster will have weaker stats, around par with enchanted great robes.

The DMP bonus was more or less an afterthought, when we got to thinking about why they would want to choose tattoos over robes, or visa-versa. Realizing that splendors have the benefit of 4 proofs (each of which comes in around 10% damage reduction), it seemed the logical choice to simply double the benefits of DMP tattoos - which does give them a distinct advantage, as it covers a broader range than proofing does (cutting, blunt, cold, fire, lightning, poison, psychic, magic instead of just cold, fire, lightning, magic, . We'd considered only applying the benefit of double DMP at TattooMaster, but it seemed like that would only discourage non-tattooist monks from using tattoos as a primary means of armour/defense. It does make DMP tattoos more beneficial for them, however we've heard plenty of crying from psymet monks over envoys about how 'useless' the DMP tattoos are due to the DMP buffs inherent in psymet, so I'm not wholly concerned it'll be 'too much' so to speak.

That said, I know Estarra's watching everything closely and will tweak things if she feels its necessary (though of course, I know we want to see how it all plays out before jumping to conclusions).
Unknown2011-04-21 21:36:45
QUOTE (Talan @ Apr 21 2011, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I feel like I have to be misunderstanding. Are you saying they get the equivalent of 78 stat armour for up to 7 damage types (plus a bit more for the last 59 points)? Or is it 78/78 for blunt/cutting + 20 DMP for other types? Where did this 78 number come from, by the way?


It's armour grade stats, for blunt, cutting, and wounding reduction. Tattoo Armour doesn't count for anything else on its own - it just scales up depending on how much of your total tattoo weight you've used. You can still have any number of DMP tattoos on top of that.

QUOTE (Veyrzhul @ Apr 21 2011, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
However, in addition to the armour rating, monks can also get up to 20 dmp against cutting and blunt damage.


I'd heard it can apply to any of the DMP tattoos, actually. Not just cutting/blunt, in order to better simulate proofings.

QUOTE (Eventru @ Apr 21 2011, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tattoo armour was intended to be around on-par with splendours at trans tattoo


Splendours are generally around 70/70 for most people. I think most non-knights would consider 78/78 to be a considerable buff over splendours, especially since the stats are not at the mercy of the RNG, and not "around on-par". Moreso because armour grades like this exist outside of the standard realm of DMP, to avoid the diminishing returns.

This makes me wonder what the administration decided was "around on-par" for greatrobe level stats now. chin.gif

(This might need a split eventually, and I hope if someone just wants to debate Splendours vs. Tattoos for balance issues, they'll make a new thread for it.)
Ytran2011-04-21 22:20:33
Does anyone know what non-trans tattoo armour stats are?
Shamarah2011-04-21 23:12:11
QUOTE (Eventru @ Apr 21 2011, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tattoo armour was intended to be around on-par with splendours at trans tattoo - a non-TattooMaster will have weaker stats, around par with enchanted great robes.

The DMP bonus was more or less an afterthought, when we got to thinking about why they would want to choose tattoos over robes, or visa-versa. Realizing that splendors have the benefit of 4 proofs (each of which comes in around 10% damage reduction), it seemed the logical choice to simply double the benefits of DMP tattoos - which does give them a distinct advantage, as it covers a broader range than proofing does (cutting, blunt, cold, fire, lightning, poison, psychic, magic instead of just cold, fire, lightning, magic, . We'd considered only applying the benefit of double DMP at TattooMaster, but it seemed like that would only discourage non-tattooist monks from using tattoos as a primary means of armour/defense. It does make DMP tattoos more beneficial for them, however we've heard plenty of crying from psymet monks over envoys about how 'useless' the DMP tattoos are due to the DMP buffs inherent in psymet, so I'm not wholly concerned it'll be 'too much' so to speak.

That said, I know Estarra's watching everything closely and will tweak things if she feels its necessary (though of course, I know we want to see how it all plays out before jumping to conclusions).


Normal proofings are 10 DMP. So basically tattoo armor is splendor robes, but with proofings that are doubly effective and can be against whatever damage type they want (including physical!) rather than the four that robes are confined to.

Also, you don't need splendors to get all four proofs (magic/electricproofed robes, fireproofed cape, coldproofed coat works just as well).
Razenth2011-04-21 23:15:36
Aren't robe proofings stronger than misc tailoring proofings and splendours even more so?
Unknown2011-04-21 23:25:27
QUOTE (Razenth @ Apr 21 2011, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Aren't robe proofings stronger than misc tailoring proofings


Yes.

QUOTE
and splendours even more so?


No. They're the same value as greatrobes, you can just get all four on splendours as opposed to having to choose two of four.
Eventru2011-04-21 23:59:12
QUOTE (Shamarah @ Apr 21 2011, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Normal proofings are 10 DMP. So basically tattoo armor is splendor robes, but with proofings that are doubly effective and can be against whatever damage type they want (including physical!) rather than the four that robes are confined to.

Also, you don't need splendors to get all four proofs (magic/electricproofed robes, fireproofed cape, coldproofed coat works just as well).


They're not really 'doubly affective', as anyone with robes can get proofings and tattoos (for +20 DMP)
Shamarah2011-04-22 00:06:34
Yeah, but not against cutting, blunt, psychic, poison, or asphyxiation. (And trust me, if I could give up, say, electricproofing to get poisonproofing or bluntproofing I'd do it in a second.)
Rika2011-04-22 00:08:06
The fact that you can get guaranteed stats with tattoo armour (78/78 according to someone?) makes it better than splendours in my opinion.
Sylphas2011-04-22 00:23:26
I'm not sure about the easiest way to fix the differences between splendours and tattoos, but I'm all for what is possibly the greediest option of adding new proofings for robes. It would be nice to have a choice instead of being locked into electric/magic robes and fire/cold cloak/coat, or just throwing all of them on splendours.
Unknown2011-04-22 00:38:27
QUOTE (Sylphas @ Apr 21 2011, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not sure about the easiest way to fix the differences between splendours and tattoos, but I'm all for what is possibly the greediest option of adding new proofings for robes. It would be nice to have a choice instead of being locked into electric/magic robes and fire/cold cloak/coat, or just throwing all of them on splendours.


Won't happen. Something like this was suggested earlier and shot down, because Estarra couldn't imagine how you could effectively keep poisons from coming through clothes, etc.

I'm still very disappointed that there's no option for a scalp tattoo.
Lehki2011-04-22 01:20:56
QUOTE (Vendetta Morendo @ Apr 21 2011, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Won't happen. Something like this was suggested earlier and shot down, because Estarra couldn't imagine how you could effectively keep poisons from coming through clothes, etc.

Magic.