This topic was inspired by the recent discussion in the Tweets thread but I think it's sort of it's own little topic so I figured I should save the admins the trouble of moving it, and do it here. I'm not trying to start an argument, though it will probably result in that, but I just want to know, what is the reasoning behind raiding an org, then enemying its members when they come to defend, then chasing them around on prime neutral any time after that and using the reason "you're an enemy"? I mean, is there an actual reason I'm missing, or is it really just a pathetic excuse to pick a fight and create new targets for griefing, like it seems at first glance? I've thought about it and thought about it and I really can't come up with a reason beyond that.

This, sorry.

What's there to understand, I think it's a reasonable assumption that you'd be enemied to an org that you're at war with sooner or later. While it's probably lame, it's not entirely new.

In fact, some other IRE orgs enemy player newbies to their org immediately upon they graduate the intro because of war.

As far as a Lusternian example, Thoros used to enemy to Mag for looking at him wrong, at least this time, you can rationalize that while twisted and demented, enemying for fighting back is understandable.

We used to enemy to Fain for "going against His will". You know, not letting us do what we want to do.

Pre-shrine changes, some people in Fain's order used to enemy people, then set up makeshift shrines on Celestia to worldburn them to death. Good times. Good, mechanic-change-forcing times.

Heck, I've even got Jack enemied to my jewelry cartel. Why?


Cause I lolled.

Personally, I think there should be a way to question your enemy status to an org, and have an admin look at it and decide if you should really be an enemy.

ESANO: ENEMY SHADDUS TO GEOMANCERS BECAUSE HE WAS DRINKING WATER AND WATER IS BAD, MKAY?

SHADDUS: LOLWTF. QUESTION ENEMY STATUS TO GEOMANCERS.

FAIN: SHADDUS, QUIT BEING A PANSY.

In Imperian, they actually have "Unwelcome" and "Enemy" as two different statuses.

When you graduate the intro, you are automatically put on some orgs "Unwelcome" lists. City defenses are usually tuned to these lists.

"Enemy" status is saved for more intentionally and aggressively going after someone.

If it were understandable, I wouldn't have to ask. Though it's more than just the enemying that confuses me. It's the hunting you down every time you leave your city/commune, even if you're a newbie/lowbie, that confuses and frankly irritates me. When I started the game, I was told you're pretty much safe on prime as long as you avoid the territory of the enemy org. That ended up not being true.

I suspect the first reply to my question was the most accurate. Thanks. Now let the bickering carry on until the thread gets locked.

Oh, we aren't bickering. It's just a sad state of things, really.

That sounds pretty good actually. I mean there are people from enemy orgs who never bother anyone, and in most cases they're left alone, but then there are pests like Nienla and Tedd and so forth, whom it does make sense to chase down whenever possible. Admins, can we have this pleeeeease?

EDIT: Shaddus, yeah I know not yet, but it's inevitable!

It's sort of why Avenger and guild champions/protectors/security exist. I hate to say it, but why else would we devote 1/3 of the guild leadership to defense?

It's even supported with a nifty person-swapping mechanic. Just call for help, and if your champion doesn't come to your rescue, see about having him or her replaced.

People have been enemied for being logged on, for being logged off, for replanting and for having an odd name. Frivilious enemy status is an unfortunate consequence of it being freely available and a culture in which no one in the same org can point out the stupidity of said enemy status without sounding like he/she is sympathizing with our worst enemies!!

What would you call every time though? Avenger literally makes it so it happens just once and then they're safe for 30 days. If you're saying that you guys can't bash on enemy territory (gorgogs, illithoids, etc) without getting jumped, well then I'd like to think that's a separate argument related to how denizen enemy territory = screwed.

Edit: Unless you're talking about offplane like astral, then my sympathy fades a little. The admin themselves said that offprime is a rough area, so you have to expect that sort of thing to happen. It's how I got into the habit of paranoid-scenting.

Well in the single instance I personally have experienced it, the reason given by the griefer was "request night," implying that he jumps a different person every day, whoever his org feels like seeing dead that day. Considering there are only about a dozen people who actually do this, and hundreds of people just going about their business, what are the chances of, say, me getting jumped more than once by the same griefer in a short enough amount of time that I can use Avenger? They're not stupid, they're going to space out their attacks on the same person far enough to avoid that. Besides, that's only if you get killed, which I didn't. If they don't manage to kill you, they're just going to keep trying until they do, knowing you can't do anything back.

As for Champion, it was Kelysa at the time. She was never around, and when she was, she was either afk or pretending to be afk, so yeah totally unreliable for that. Don't get me wrong, I think Champion/Security/Protector and Avenger are very useful mechanical ways of helping such situations. I just wondered why such situations even existed. I still think that idea from Imperian would help too!

Edit for the ninja post above me: I did specifically say Prime and Neutral, yes. For example in my case it was hunting manticores. Aubrey has been jumped a few other times, but I don't count them because they were for legitimate reasons, for example being in that UV village of Glom's that I can never spell. I'm not talking about that sort of thing.

Wtf request night? Is this Malarious being an ASSASSIN again. I also doubt there's a dozen people who do this, there are maybe five or six. If I'm wrong, feel free to name and shame.

I'd like to think dying once every 30 days at the most is a long enough time to get what you want done.

As far as inactive positions, we already know that inactive leaders are lame, so if they're not doing their job, find someone else who can.

Thul actually. Why would a Mag attack Aubrey?

Well like I said, that means you have to stand there and let them kill you every time, and that's every 30 days per griefer, not in general. If you fight back and win, you get jumped by 10 others for daring to win, and if you escape, you just get chased again next time they see you. The only way I avoided that was by speaking to their org leader, who claimed they'd tell him to knock it off (and he has left me alone since). For some reason most people aren't willing to do this though, so they continue getting jumped.

Yeah we did replace her, thank God.

QFT. Especially champions. Champs are there to keep people from dying. They're the guild's meat shield. They were elected because they are the toughest of the tough, and if their swords or wands aren't being sharpened and waved, they are just sitting on their titles. Mother Night would be very annoyed, and so should you!

I think that was my first ninja post. Hee!

Right, so. How many griefers jump you within the span of 1 RL day? Again, I doubt there would be a dozen, or even half a dozen. Thul, super bear griefer that he is, is just one person, which you've said has knocked it off. Who else is super griefing you or your communemates?

I am all about sympathy, really I am, I'd like to think I'm far more of a bleeding heart than the average player, but I still don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be. And man, if this is prime, just taking a vitae death is easy enough, it's not like xp loss hurts here. Boom, quiet for 30 days.