Edited: This was over 3 years ago? I haven't had via for a longggg time.

I find it weird how sometimes you remember the weirdest things from when you were a noob.

Yup! Prolly about three years ago! When my Noola character was only a few weeks old.

Ah, memories.

But seriously, that's the only unprovoked attack I've ever had on me, ever, that I can think of and it was during a Free PK event. I think, for the most part, the safeguards against griefing on Prime work.

Thul jumped me in Meadows a few times, but he's a tae'dae, so it only really mattered when I was afk that one time. Other than that I've gotten off pretty light, even before gem/specs/aethersight.

Here's something. Enemying for defending is bad. Enemying for leaving a guild? You know.... like the Moondancers do? :Sylphas: :prod:

I suppose I'll wait to see if someone will say, "No, we only enemy if you also do _______" before I say, "Wow, really? That's messed up."

But yeah, if they do enemy you just for leaving, that's pretty messed up. I know the Harbingers don't do that except in special cases, such as in-and-outs to grab a guild skill.

We can always come up with a reason...

Logically:

If you're defending you're part of the military. Part of the military means you're not a civilian. Not a civilian means you are free game in the PK...

You're only enemied if you quit without telling the leaders. One person had gone to the Glomdoring, gotten enemied because they didn't message anyone, then got unenemied as soon as they gave notice. So you can leave for the opposing org if you want without getting enemied. Just need to give a reason.

That seems fair.

If I were to leave my guild and/or organization, I wouldn't sneak out without giving notice.

The problem with that being.... those are my lessons, my skills and my items, not the guilds. Seeing as the administration has already said that we aren't allowed to force people to spend their lessons against their will or punish them for not learning something in particular, it's really none of a guild's business if I leave it. I'm not saying I should be able to take a bunch of stuff and go to another guild, screw my old gold and so on... but it's really not their concern if I just leave.

There's a difference between the kind of behaviour that is forcing people to spend lessons a certain way and the kind of behaviour that is killing people for the not exactly flimsy RP reason of still having a guild's skills while in another org. It's certainly as good a reason as any of the others people are allowed to kill for on the basis that Avenger ought to take care of it, and the fact it doesn't is totally unrelated.

Basically, there's no reason they can't make it their concern if they want. There are only a few reasons you'd want to keep foreign skills anyway, and some of them are basically begging for this kind of retribution.

Well, ok. I'm not saying I should be able to take the guild skills and go rogue whatever in another org. I'm saying.. If I'm a moondancer/some other guild, and I leave it for another guild without saying anything, it's not my old guild's concern unless I was on bad standings and I ran off with credits/stuff from the guild shop/Shiri's badger leash.

Stuff from the guild shop doesn't concern us. Someone once roleplayed going crazy and summoning his Fae in his manse and killing them. That's more of a concern.

Oh, then yes, I'd like things to be that way but I wouldn't try to fight too hard for it if I were you, it's kinda hard to argue IC and ultimately it's not that awful anyway.

msg "Moondancers aren't for me, bye!"; quit moondancers - Not enemied.
quit moondancers - Enemied to the guild, which has no mechanical repercussions except people who actually follow the rules not selling things to you. Status comes off as soon as I get around to saying "hey Shaddus, I see you left, what's that about?" unless you're a real prick. If you go to Glom I tack on Moon status too, same rules.

Logs usually say "Enemied for leaving without notice, will be removed when we find out why."

If people are hunting others for it, then we've got serious issues. Barring that, though, it really shouldn't affect you much and it's really, really easy to remove.

Certain guilds have ALWAYS had policies, if you take off with our skills, we will hunt you until you forget them. The skills, they do belong to that guild. If you are not a Nihilist, why should you have Nihilism, I would be the first to enemy you to the guild and brand you an enemy of Nil. Cosmic and Ritual however, the basic guild skills, I do not see a problem with due to, you can go to another guild that has those skills, it is the specializations that most guilds do not want you taking off with.

On another note, about being jumped and all that. It is a bit ridiculous at times. Way back when Diamante was the first person to ever jump me (woo first death on Lusternia) for no reason what so ever. Since then I have died to players a handful of times but not outright jumped up till I moved to Serenwilde. Day 1, novicehood in the moondancers, had to do the college like every other novice. Planes quest I was just finishing up and going through Faethorn, was right at the gate to go back to Etherseren and Urazial and Sidd both jumped me. Now, I am not a combatant so, I ran, go through the gate and figured I was safe, no such luck, they came in and killed me. I am not, and never have been enemied to Glomdoring or anything it is associated with so really, it was just them being jerks and making players dislike them even more than they already had.

Meh. On the same token, I've been attacked by Tedd and Kolm a few times while I was harvesting Prime. Not enemied to anything Serenwildian (yes, that's a word. I just used it, so it must be one) either, so it does happen both ways. Doesn't make it more right, but still...

I got enemied to Fain for defending Celestia. It was really odd. There was no counter-raid or any such thing (or even talk of a counter-raid). We just all went up to Celestia, defended, and I got enemeid. I asked about it, and the answer was a general "you are an enemy." I twitched, but shrugged, too. Being enemied to Fain is hardly something my character would be upset about, although I think the whole thing was daft.

Heh. I got enemied "in preparation for the Harmony Challenge" (or whichever is the influence one), which I wasn't even around for. Still enemied.

Exactly. And Aubrey doesn't defend in a combat sense. When I say non-com, I kinda mean it. Not sure why I have to keep reiterating this point...



Thank you for bringing up this point. It does happen in all orgs, and I didn't mean to imply it was just from Glom. It's just that that's what I've had most experience with, so it's the example I used. It's not good no matter who's doing it.


As for Moondancers, the official written rule says enemying for leaving without notice is on a case-by-case basis. If a newbie does it (and hasn't obviously taken advantage of something before leaving), we don't really care. If you have the courtesy to tell us first, we also don't usually care. But if you go rogue and keep all your wiccan skills, or you go to Glom without notifying us, or you appear to have used your Moondancer membership to take advantage (for example make alt, get freebies in the newbie intro, buy a crapload of cheap stuff from guild tutor to sell later, and quit to be rogue/Glom), yes we're going to take notice and possibly/likely enemy. It's pretty reasonable, usually very easily undone, and it's not like there are huge consequences, since we don't chase you down and kill you whenever we see you or anything. Celest, on the other hand, is an example of an org who enemies someone who goes to the opposing org no matter what the situation.

This related topic kind of highlights the point I was trying to make in the first place. While frivolous enemying is dumb and should be avoided by any intelligent leader, it's not as big a deal in and of itself. It's when that status is used as an excuse to kill you for no other reason besides that status, that it seems like a problem to me. If we went around enemying anyone who left the guild without notice and then killed them on neutral prime whenever we got bored "because they're an enemy," people would be throwing fits.