My bad. Apologies for misunderstanding and confusing the refill increase with the capacity increase.

I'm almost sure I heard someone describe how you could get infinite refills by pouring cleverly from one container into another, though I don't remember the actual process now.

Alchemists still get a bonus from using a runed keg, except now you can't refill others' kegs with yours and keep the extra fills.

And, I do understand that this is a nerf and it hurts because the trade artifacts are out of whack. I'm not arguing against changes in the trades or the artifacts. There really should be something new created to consume less herbs when amalgamating.

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

Unlocked Potential kegs hold 6x the usual quantity of potion. In addition, it takes only half as many herbs to completely fill the keg (as if it were actually 3x).

Before the nerf, this meant you could mix potion into your Unlocked Potential keg, then pour the potion into normal kegs for sale, halving your production costs. Now, since the contents are "halved" when pouring into a normal keg, you have to use a bunch of vials and a script as a "middleman" to swap all the sips from the Unlocked Potential keg into normal kegs. Unless vial sips are also halved, that is, which means you're basically paying 300 credits for a triple-capacity keg?

Also, I assume Spatial Expansion and Plentiful Storage kegs won't actually get halved.

Correct.

On second thought, I'm backing out of this thread. Enjoy.

Er, if the only cost you acknowledge alchemists as having is the powerstone cost, then by that same logic, since most artisans ask their customers to provide commodities, artisan must be pure profit too.

well, then I might suggest an actual deconstruct skill for artisan. I did find it stupid that the owner was the one who had to do it and it did not cost anything at that, the big burly guys comes in and so on. Let artisans be able to deconstruct and for to protection of the owner, have an AGREE system set into place so that the artisan cannot just come in and do it (that would be sneaky and likely tick off a lot of people however, enchanters can do it to sigils that are not in a place they own). Either way, I have for a long time recolonize for a long time the the artisan artifact is not up to par with the others and personal, a LOT of the trade artifacts are NOT worth what they are being sold for.

The jewelery hammer costs 500 credits, 100 credits more than the next highest. It does not increase how many powerstones I get nor how often I will cut that random one. I am guaranteed 3 gems on every cut, if I do not have master cut that is all I get. I get a random chance to cut more than 3 and up to 21 though that 21 cut us very rare. It is a MUST for a jeweler to have when cutting gems but is it worth 500 credits? I really do not think so.

As one of the few people who actually own poisoner's gloves, I wouldn't mind seeing it get marked down.

Just saying.

Yeah, the Gloves of Harvesting is the only artifact that pays for itself, assuming you're an herbalist who actually harvests and sells. The Poisoner's Gloves are better than the really awful trade artifacts, but they're not worth the same as the Gloves of Harvesting.

This goes back to the whole, "Are trades really profitable, or do they add a RP flavor of commerce?" question.

Cooking is profitable, if you have a shop, and are patient. I was making 50k+ a RL day back when I actively kept the Wyrm stocked.

But yeah, I just traded in my artifact keg, because the -only- reason to justify 300 credits on it was because of pouring. If you want it to be for that keg only, lower it to 50 credits like the vials, and -maybe- I'll buy a few for my more used things (health/mana/bromide).

This plus the massively increased cost of doing business from inane commodity cost increases (especially the latest change to beers), it's not even worth taking cooking anymore unless you deal exclusively in constitution platters.

I probably won't even keep kegs stocked anymore, because the massive increase in herbs it'll take. It was hard enough keeping stocked before, when I was only using 1/2 the herbs that would be required now.

Just throwing this out, but my hammer has paid itself off and if you actually want to be competitive in a market, yes, it's a must.

I am thinking the same thing to be honest, herbalist did not like taking orders to begin with and now that I need 10,000 herbs instead of 5,000 yeah.. not gonna work. You can forget about ever seeing magicink, allheale, vitae and quicksilver again, seriously those are the most expensive potions to make (might be missing some too). Either way, we are going back to the days before that rune was available and 225 gold for a healing potion was a decent price if you could find it at all.

This is what I'm afraid of. I'm already having to adjust prices and stopped selling herbs just so they don't sell out and I actually have enough to use for kegs. For big rich players these changes might not mean much, but it's going to be horrible on the newbies and such. Do the admins not realize which portion of the playerbase they're hurting with these changes?

A 300 credit artifact that disproportionately affects alchemical production (halving cost across the board) no longer doing so isn't a 'nerf'.

It's a bug fix.

Still not nearly as painful as the double commodity costs on forged equipment. Those low leveled knights are really put in the hole to get decent weapons/armor.

I've not much opinion on the keg/alchemy change either way, but I'm all for equalizing the value on trade artifacts. And the mallets seem pretty essential for any smith that does much in the way of master weapons. 1 steel per a tempering can really add up, especially if you like playing around with stats or there's not many smiths in your guild.

Yeah, I've been trying to think of materials that could be used that they aren't in high demand, or expensive. Least demand are food comms, and I don't think weapons like that would work. But this comment is slightly off topic.

It's a "bug fix" that makes them worthless and I want my credits back. It's like removing the Astral fulcruxes from a cubix and saying it's still fine because you get Cosmic planes still.

If I were Estarra, I would certainly refund your credits for them. Have you asked?

I'm going to continue the highjack by saying if you make a meat sword, it would be just like playing kingdom of loathing! Except you know, without the awesome stick figures. I would get one for hunting, just saying.

With all due respect, the same can be said about many (if not most) trade-artifacts. The spatula, for instance, is exactly the same: it doubles the output of any dish it makes. The harvesting gloves are similar; you can harvest twice as many herbs in the same time period. The gloves for the enchanters halves the power drain from powerstones, which makes them last twice as long, essentially providing twice the output for the same amount of powerstones (not including the comms needed for sigils). I've never been a jeweller, so I'm not sure how good the jeweller's hammer is, but since it's considered "a must", it's likely also close to double, or at least a very significant increase in output. In that sense, an artifact for 300 credits that doubles output across the board is hardly something to automatically consider a bug.

Also, what is the primary purpose for the change? People who refill a keg with, say, healing and immediately pours them over to other kegs, then uses the same keg to make mana and repeats? Or the people who keep a runed keg full of healing and pours from it into other kegs, topping it off as it goes low? If the first, there's a (if you ask me) much better fix; make the runes tuneable towards specific concoctions, and if the tuning and what's being put into it doesn't match, you don't get the extra fills. The tuning should, of course, be changeable (perhaps once a RL day), but it should drastically cut down on the first type of people while keeping the second type of people unaffected.