That's not how it works though. They will preach about how little power the leaders actually have, since they aren't leaders and want to be free. But when the leaders go, they'll take the leaders' place, and then all bets are off. They'll want to exert as much power as possible.

What power do leaders innately have over someone with a high cityrank? I imagine writing treaties is one, but I must confess ignorance of the others.

Anyway, the idea of a shadow government is to coerce someone into doing what your society wants. Whether they follow your ideas or not, depends on how persuasive you are.

A shadow government won't work in a mechanical city structure where I can simply remove you or punish you for something in hard-coded terms.

As for what power a leader has over high cityrank, that is NOT purely mechanical, though some parts are. It's mostly fluff and non-mechanical day to day work that they're empowered to do.

Competing structures for influence in the same city is a recipe for tears so bitter, even Murphy wouldn't be nourished. Glomdoring tried that. Failed experiment!

Yeah, this problem too. I'd rather it be a positive reinforcement sort of a thing.

I've only scanned this thread and haven't really found a need to say anything, but this notion that I said you were "not supposed to actually do anything but make sure the bills are paid and the masses stay happy doing whatever they want" (as I'm the one who spoke to people) is completely absurd. For the record, no one was punished (unless talking to me is punishment) and I discussed two things: (1) it is not appropriate to block people from contesting, and (2) it -could- be harassment if you lock your guild members up to interrogate them. I also stated OVER and OVER and OVER that admin will rarely get involved in player politics unless absolutely necessary.

As an aside, I expressed my opinion that it seemed odd that the city of freedom would punish people for being politicians and lying about their opponents and throw around words like "slander" and "treason". I think Rodngar's statement that if someone insults him, that should give him the right to punish them. I merely -suggest- that is not the most politic of responses for a city of freedom. Can't you speak back and defend yourself? Call them out as a liar? Do you really need to go over the top and punish them? Again, none of this is meant how Gaudiguch or a guild therein HAS to behave, I just wanted to ask the question.

I also mentioned to Kalin (on an unrelated matter) that Guadiguch has a public relations problems insofar that some people PERCEIVE the city as being overly authoritative. I did not say anything to Kalin that he had to let people do what they want and just be pay the bills--come on! If you haven't heard it before, THE ADMIN WILL ONLY GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS IF ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY!

Yes, I talked to a few people over issues, how this can be turned into some admin conspiracy to keep the city leaders down is absolutely beyond me. As a mortal, I controlled a City of Freedom with an iron fist while everyone believed they could do what they want so I thought perhaps some words of advice may have been appreciated. Obviously not!

For the record, from the admin's macro-perspective, Gaudiguch does not have a problem insofar as their guilds are active and the overall activity of the city rivals Glomdoring. Indeed, I see no reason why they couldn't one day soon dominate the Basin.

It's times like these that I really miss the fact that these forums do not have a 'like' button.

*facebook like*

...Shakti?

You heard it here first, people! Gaudiguch is the new New Glomdoring! All we need are Pyro upgrades that include insanity, a bard guild with a 2p song that gives 4-6 applications of insanity, a proper demizerg, and a real construct, and we'll be pwnzorz! From Estarra's lips to your xp!

It seemed very clear in our discussion that having laws or being authoritative in any way was against Gaudiguch's roleplay, or at least from my perspective. It felt like what you were saying was, in fact, that what we're supposed to do is sit quietly and do our own tiny projects while keeping the screaming masses of the city happy. However, I don't think either of the two things you brought up were what we were getting at here (more than likely, they'll be latched on to by Aubrey and others who attempted to troll the thread, especially when those points arose mostly from misunderstandings, but whatever).



I believe my statement IN THIS THREAD (not in any issues discussed beforehand, and why this is coming up repeatedly, I cannot say?) is more along the lines of, if somebody is acting like a complete fool because they're 'free to do so', why am I not 'free to do as I please' as well, when what I please to do is hurt them for acting dumb? The political agenda of somebody, as well as their tools of choice to succeed, should never also come with a tag that says that their statements also make them devoid of punishment. That should not also happen JUST because Gaudiguch is a 'city of freedom'. If we want to use the America example again, if I go up to a cop and tell him to do something lewd to me, I'm more than likely going to find myself pulled in to the station or something. You can speak back and defend yourself in any city or guild - the Illuminati are no different. You can call them out as a liar - and in fact, it has been done. It is more that when things come to a personal boil, why is it that their political ends become a shield for them to hide behind due to Administrative tampering? I'm trying to stay away from this topic because it is still an incredibly sore subject to me despite the fact that it born entirely of a bunch of misunderstandings and conspiratorial notions in roleplay, but.. well.



Gaudiguch has that perception only with people like Dysolis or people in certain clans led by certain other troublemakers - people whose mains or alts or alt-alts or alt-alt-alts toed the line ONE too many times and got punished because leaders were fed up with the bull. As for Admin getting involved only when absolutely necessary, I'm going to only comment that the way Gaudiguch has been handled in the past week and a half has made me think quite the contrary. As well, why should it matter if the city is 'overly authoritative'? If a majority of people believed that, Kalin would be replaced. The city is, if anything, under authoritative because of the handling in the past few days that have made us scared to make one false move that could result in us losing a position we probably all find fun (leading a city, a guild, etc).



Times have changed. The internet is a different place, and the quality of people that text-based games/IRE games specifically attract are much different than they were years and years ago. I am inclined to say people have grown a bit more dull or thick in that time, or humans in general have developed a larger sense of self-importance or self-entitlement. In addition, I don't think Ashtan ever had to deal with a divine-controlled mortal founder whose first acts were to goggle are how much weed she had in her rift. More than that, I just don't think Gaudiguch has any problems besides a lack of motivation partly due to the whole 'freedom' bent giving them purchase to be lazy. Kalin can't rule with an iron fist because we have the same squad of nitwits rising up every time and getting themselves turned leafy or they are eating away at the base of the city like little anklebiters because they're angry a few choice troublemakers lost their citizenship.

In a city like Gaudiguch, whose themes include conspiracy, secrecy, etc, I wonder just how well you as an Administration would receive an inquisition in the name of Freedom to root out people who obstruct the greater freedom of Gaudiguch as an entity - then I realize it would probably be rather negative.

It's the administration's job to make sure that issues are solved. If people new to the game are being locked up and don't understand why, it isn't mortalkind who will hear about the backlash. I'm not suggesting that you're totally wrong, Rodngar, and I think that each organization should be able to explore various other realms of punishment or authority, but just be aware that if enough people (minority, majority or somewhere inbetween) complain about a certain method of control, Someone's going to have to respond to the issues.

Issues come from the players, and thus, they cannot (or should not) be thrown out if the administration disagrees. An extensive amount of thought will (or should) go into how the administration responds to every issue, and then somehow, a verdict will be reached. That's really all Estarra said. So feel free to keep on keeping on, but be prepared to pay the piper.

We either were hearing different discussions or you seem incapable of listening to any advice I give without massively misinterpreting me (or not being able to read between the lines).

Ah well, I shall refrain from giving out unwanted advice!

I don't think that the advice is unwanted, but when you are in a position of power over me in terms of controlling just how far I as a player can go before you as an Administrator step in, I don't think I should be reading between any lines. I should be taking it at face value, literal, and not try to absolutely bend or break it, lest I get myself in hot water.

He forgot to turn on the Bob Marley.

This thread deserves dramatic music.

well yeah it's in a web of lies and deceit.

Really, I called what you do "tiny projects"? I said you should "sit quietly"? That's what I said at "face value"?

You know, the more you post on this, the more it seems to me that you resented my talking to you about anything. Thus, you are out to "prove" that I am some unreasonable admin overseer out to micromanage player orgs which is the far, far from the truth of the matter. Get real. You are not taking what I said at face value but you are engaging in gross exaggeration, hyperbole and sarcasm to "prove" your point. I tried to offer advice and you are distorting what I said. I think that is unfair.

Hi everyone, we're all veering off into that collision course with overreaction, please take this moment to watch zoo animals get high before posting more. Thanks in advance!