I don't really alt in gadui, but this is sounding familiar.

I've seen a lot on the forums where leaders of Gaudiguch are complaining about people never coming to them with issues that they have.

I have to ask, why do they think this is? In halli I have yet to have concerns about approaching any of the leadership but this seems to be different in gaudiguch.

If this is the most vocal complaint of the leaders when drama-month rolls around then it seems more likely that the issue is a lack of faith in the leadership. This may seem... influenced by my experiences with Gregori in the past, but part of me wants to suggest that perhaps you should look for some new leaders that you trust and encourage them to contest.

If the majority of these issues are driven by personal feelings towards the player or the character then a new leader may give the city a chance to try and grow. It may not work and the drama may continue, however they may gain support if they "defeat soandso" thereby gaining a chance to bring in the changes that people are talking about.

Either way, I can only go off what ends up all over the forums and previous experiences. The leaders may not like this option, but it is a possible option. Placate the masses with the semblance of victory over the hated oppressors and then make the changes that are needed.

I love hearing the solutions of "Toss out the only people actually doing anything in the city and elect the people who don't do anything because they might feel happier if they have the job."




Now how about solutions for the people who are actually working in the city to deal with the people who are just causing trouble in the city.

You have quite missed the point and used sarcasm again. With your numbers you could effectively hand pick someone to replace you.

Unless you truly believe that there is not one person in your entire city who could step up and lead. Given the numbers I have seen quoted regarding elections, a majority (based on vote weight) support you I believe last was minimum 20ish with vote weights of 10. Of those say... sixteen (taking out the current leaders) there is no one capable of stepping forward?

Also, this "people who don't do anything" who are they? are the ministers on the receiving end of all of this? do they not have active aides. What do you expect them to be doing that they aren't?

I am sorry, but if people are still not willing to talk to their leaders then that is an issue that needs to be addressed. As long as people do not trust you then they are obviously going to resist your changes and complain about them, you've experienced this before.

So I ask, if only hypothetically, if there was someone who could lead Gaudiguch and who would work for its betterment, would you willingly step aside?

Yes I would step aside, but you know what? why should I? I have just as much right to play the game and lead the city as anyone else and anyone with cross character issues needs to learn to deal with that because theat is them with the problem not me and saying "well they don't like you because you were gregori" just proves that they and you have the problem. Furthermore, if there was that much animosity towards me I would have lost one in four elections. It's not like I won by a small margin either.

So no, there is no reason for the current leaders to step aside because a vocal biased minority only has issues when they feel slighted enough to contest and when they lose the election issue wars happen. What there is need of is people to realise that Gaudiguch has rules, like it or not.

/thread

Druken sluts, eh? I guess just as long as they're sassy and recognize me as their general.

And ICly, you definitely had some good will and reputation to begin with. Just the name association worked in your favor when the city first opened. But calling people punks, and behaving as if whatever you did prior to Gaudi being re-released entitles you to far more than a nod and a tip of the hat? That really doesn't help your case. You have to think about what you look like from an outsider's perspective. You may have done a lot of RP work hoping for the release of Gaudiguch, but that is invisible to most, and doesn't have any feel of being really connected to the city.

Trying to strong-arm your way back in doesn't help your case either. It doesn't say, "He's willing to work with people now". It says, "If he's let back in, he'll just keep picking fights." Even if you managed, through whatever means, to get back in this way, you would then have to work with some of the people who got caught in the collateral damage of the drama. You'd have poisoned the water before even setting foot in the door.



This too. The elections, the drama, the IC stuff, I actually thought that was great. But that's not what its about anymore, and that's what is troubling. The first few crazies were fine, but the problem has become, as soon as one is dealt with, a new one shows up. And there's too much similarity to call it a coincidence. They almost always read from the same play book:

-Scream about a clique opressing gaudiguch (let alone that there is a proven and easy method to gain entry into said clique- do work. Deal with conflicts in a manner that isn't name-calling public attacks. Akui's argued with Kalin, geez, lots. Many hours of game time. But it is done in tells, and with the knowledge that we both want what is best for the org, even if we have different views on what exactly that is, or how to get there. Eventually, even those arguments have simmered down as we've come to terms with what to expect from eachother. Though, we still have one maybe once a RL week. It helps if you develop your ability to argue with someone with zeal and vigour without actually having ill will towards the person themself. From someone who is terribly argument prone herself, trust me, this goes a long way.

-Gain support almost purely from unknown characters, who make posts or quips or tells. The Alt Army. This has contributed to some administrative action when the people in question take it way beyond acceptable tolerances. Its also disconcerting at an OOC level. Honestly, use your mains people. If you stay with your main for these things, eventually, some kind of equilibrium will be reached that will be better than where you started from, even if you aren't happy with where you wound up.

-Shattering the IC/OOC barrier, making threats, cruising for an issue, burying the admin in a sea of drama, again usually from unknown characters, or barely involved characters. I should hope that it isn't necessary to explain why this is a bad thing.

The clique thing has its upsides, but A) is likely to be really unstable in the event of internal conflict (and let's not assume that just because they don't have the least involved members of a city's population, they won't have internal conflict) and 2) is kind of divisive in the sense that people will be put off thinking not much is going on and thus never end up speaking up and contributing, or straight up don't like the idea.

It isn't necessarily a dealbreaker, but I'm not too optimistic myself, YMMV.

EDIT: Goddamnit, one of these days I'm going to hack the forums and delete that smiley

I don't actually care beyond the fact that this is creating a really bad atmosphere within the game. If it wasn't for the constant things popping up on the forums I would not even think about the fact that you are kalin.

As to the numbers supporting and opposing you, that is debatable and you know this. Even off of vote weights of Kalin vs the opposition there have been times when the opposition have had greater support.

Again, if you wish to enforce rules then do so. If this resolves all issues then good, perhaps I will see a thread related to gaudiguch that does not make me frown. Wether you are capable of leading Gaudiguch through this or not does not matter to me.

We all have the right to play this game. However, leading an org is not a right it is a responsibility and you are responsible for ensuring that the org does well, if an org begins to bleed players the cause needs to be investigated.

If those players are all alts as it seems the tone is then alt abuse issues should resolve this.
If those players are not alts and you uncitizen them or they leave, eventually you would have a majority who would be opposing you if they were still in the org or even players any more.

Again, I don't really care if you lead Gaudiguch or if someone else takes over. However, from your first post in response to me you have responded with sarcasm and have not taken the suggestion seriously. If this is how Kalin would treat all suggestions he does not agree with, is it any wonder people keep issues to themselves and things eventually spill over?

You could have responded with a far different tone and offered an explanation as to why the issue would not work, you chose not to.

Something like "We don't really have anyone that we feel could really step up to the position and work well in it" would likely have resulting in my going "Oh ok, that's unfortunate" your response is really the only thing that prompted me to continue.

You are quite correct, I didn't take the suggestion seriously. Why? because it was a stupid suggestion based not on solving the problem, because it wouldn't solve the problem in the least. It would just hand the problem off to someone else, but instead based on "you are gregori, i am biased, you should step down"

I try to stay out of the majority of this stuff because I don't have the energy for it, but I have to be quite honest: what bothers me most about this whole thing is the sheer amount of metagaming that goes on. I don't really get issues; in fact I've been one of the people doing the issuing. There appears to be an alt brigade that comes out of the woodwork when their main or other alt can't get their way with regards to Kalin, Rodngar, Lyria or whomever, and it's frustrating to me. As a player, I feel like it's quickly becoming too much to ask others to exhibit a modicum of decency and integrity. I'm sorry you can't get your way and all, really, but that doesn't mean it's OK to make multiple alts to pad your "base", trash-talk, or threaten people on behalf of your alt (true story).

So yes, there do seem to be people who are absolutely desperate to do...something with regards to the way Gaudiguch is currently set up. I don't know what it is - none of these remarkably determined folks will talk to anyone remotely connected to the leadership of the city. They also don't want to do anything for the city until they are handed or elected to a position, which strikes me as rather self-defeating. Why would anyone hand a person power if they've been all talk and no action?

I wish Gaudiguch could have a few more laws or policies of some kind; unfortunately my answer to the question in the title of this topic is "You build some nice exhibits and hire zookeepers to keep the animals well fed and trained" - but doing either of those things seems like it would incite tantrums from the "No laws!" group and ire from the same parts of the administration that are exhibiting concern now.

Just do what you need to do and damn the consequences. Some choices are tough and people will beat you down for it... even the Admin... but you know what? You just gotta do them anyway because in the end, it's the right thing to do, and it's what a true leader would do.

Good Evening

1. Pour your favorite drink of choice
2. Load up your web browser
3. In the first tab open up http://www.rainymood.com/
4. In a second tab load http://www.endlessyoutube.com/watch?v=DIx3aMRDUL4
5. In the last tab open http://www.endlessyoutube.com/watch?v=HMnrl0tmd3k
6. Sit back and enjoy

First of all let me admit my biases.

My limited interactions with Admin Kalikai have been exemplary.

Finally being able to recall Guardian ents is wonderful.

No Gregori doesn't have a pair of strawberry scented wings and a dazzling unicorn-bright halo.

Now then chaps, I have a few points for discussion.



+ Ask the Admin to publicly an in an pretty much OOC manner state what boundaries the leaders has. Otherwise there can be the 'Viravain RP' argument where players can (rightly) argue that they don't have to follow dictates by a Divine.

+ Failed contestants for CL or guild position leaving the city or guild doesn't look good for the victor when this happens more than a couple times. Granted the winners have no control over the actions of another, but this type of chronic behavior gets the Admin to pay attention.



+ My understanding is that this is not a violation of the game rules. Xenthos/Shiri please feel free to inform me if it is otherwise.

+ Having said that dear gentlemen discussing how to rid the guild of one member who is contesting guild positions so that you have a lock on the hierarchy, allow me to make a recommendation.

Knock it the F off. Clearly I have a historical bias on this topic, but I consider this practice unfriendly and in the long run, unwise. Most others who don't bother to post do as well. Just as a thought consider that you may attract attention from individuals who view this type of thing in a dim light. Let the dissenter continue to exist and if they are unfit for leadership they will usually burn themselves out with minimal effort on your part. And besides, that effort can be productively spent elsewhere.

Edit: Clarity

Again same response, there is no need to respond this way. I have stated multiple times that I do not care who the leader of Gaudiguch is.
If a lack of laws is the fault then create a set and see what happens, if this resolves the discontent then good and perhaps players will begin to gravitate towards the city.
Issue the people you feel are abusing alts, if they are then the admin can act accordingly and the issues should die down.
If the issues still occur after this then something else is at fault.

*shrug*

I'm going to sleep, then I'll get on with my life and we'll see how everything turns out.

To the first, that happens in every org and in fact in gaudiguch has only happened once. (I don't count Dowapaa cause she only contested to make the election start and had planned to leave anyways according to what she told everyone)

To the second, despite Aubrey's ravings this thread has nothing at all to do with an Illuminati member. I in fact have nothing to do with that member, and the general leadership of Gaudiguch has nothing to do with that member. That is an Illuminati matter. We are discussing Gaudiguch, though granted I did mention GT aethers in my listing, but more as a widespread problem throughout the city than any single incident.


Edit:: to clarfiy further I told those involved they can't kick someone for contesting and trying to find ways to kick them after contesting was wrong. Beyond that miyself and anyone outside the illuminati had nothing to say on the matter. So let's stop trying to make this thread about the ravings of someone who doesn't grasp what is really going on.

Hm, Have Hallifax invade Gaudiguch, we set up a temporary settlement there, share our myriad of rules with you guys, people who and moan will be kicked out of the city. The current leaders of Gaudiguch would have their leadership strengthened by our rules. Eventually you guys overthrow us, we leave to our beautiful drama free city, and you guys set up a new government with some of the rules we forced on you guys. Re-create the rules to enter the society, and make it not that anyone can join. Not saying Gaudiguch becomes a private club, but something in which if a person were to join, you can say that we are waiting to make sure there is enough room.


And if you want to get rid of the idiocy on the guild chatter, don't respond. Separate the people, and clear up the division the moment they speak right.

Oh, and one last thing. Think about forcing people to defend. That's the beauty of your city, everybody has an obligation to defend, otherwise they are breaking rule number one, and should be kicked from the city, right? And seriously, DO THIS!!!! Have them enemied, and hunt down repeated amount of times. If they want absolute freedom, kick them out and they will have absolute freedom.

But I think I can really help you guys out. But I don't want to leave Hallifax, so RP something in which we invade you and set you guys up and overthrow us in 4,5 years and keep some of the rules we have created for you. Wouldn't that help you guys out?

I don't think this is the kind of solution people are looking for.

I was hoping someone else would say it, because that is just.. not going to happen. :/

No, it's really not realistic in any way, shape or form; not to bring in the Glom vs. Seren debate, but something similar was already suggested there and soundly rejected.

Oh, here you go.

Gaudi's commitment to chaos has become too predictable - too constant and orderly. You feel oppressed by the constant requirement to emphasize freedom.

You need to incorporate periodic swings into overbearing laws and structure to maintain unpredictability and throw off the shackles of having to be free all the time.