Sidd2010-08-11 16:13:43
QUOTE (Lehki @ Aug 11 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe I'm just a mean-spirited heartless person, but I really can't get how anybody could be upset or resentful or guilty about this. It's a game, and everybody knew this was coming for MONTHS.
I don't really care if this was done or not, but I think this particular problem is only an issue in Glom, don't think there's really much of decision to make in any other org.
I don't really care if this was done or not, but I think this particular problem is only an issue in Glom, don't think there's really much of decision to make in any other org.
Right, because Glom has active ascendants, ours didn't run away to play in the new orgs. I bet Serenwilde would be in a similar situation had Alianna, Gregori, Sarrasri, Nejii still remained active and playing those characters.
It's easy enough to say stop being selfish, it's for the good of your org (the majority of our ascendants have already offered in one way or another) but it doesn't make it any less of a move to do.
Siam2010-08-11 16:13:57
FACT: No one knew. It was a change that was announced all of a sudden several months prior.
Furien2010-08-11 16:15:22
Maybe it's just hazy retrospect, but I'm pretty sure it was pointed out by others (Desitrus comes to mind) that the principle behind the Ascendant mechanic was insane, and that it would essentially become a Demigod Machine unless something was done to it (caps, upkeeps, etc.).
It was so sensible that... well, it came to be implemented.
It was so sensible that... well, it came to be implemented.
Eventru2010-08-11 16:16:11
QUOTE (Talan @ Aug 11 2010, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We have five people that are active, deserving, and wanting of 2 or possibly 3 spots. The possible third is particularly wrenching. We have to keep debating who should lose it when we don't even know for sure if we'll have to sacrifice that third person. People have resigned themselves to losing it and then there's this glimmer of hope that may turn out to be false. All of the candidates are willing to step aside, for the good of the org, for the benefit of someone they think deserves it more, for the benefit of someone they think will use it better. The decision isn't getting any easier. We've known it's coming, yet all along it has been a matter of waiting to see what the exact numbers will be before making the final call. And we still don't know.
We already resent the admin (I'm sorry, it can't be helped.) for this change, but we further resent the fact that they are putting the ugliest consequence of this change on our shoulders. You have put us in a situation where we are forced to resent each other for the choices that need to be made and inevitably leave bad feelings. This is a social game, and so not uncommonly, we have become real friends - who are now being forced to decide which of our friends is least deserving of something we all want. It's crap, any way you slice it. I don't blame Xenthos for trying to find any way out of this, because the situation is awful. While we are resigned to the fact that this is for the best for the game over all, a modicum of sympathy for the situation we're in isn't unreasonable. I know a lot of people reading this scoff, feeling that we are fortunate enough to be having this problem, of too many deserving people... yet the sentiment Xenthos expresses is that he'd rather have no one than have to choose who gets to keep it, and he's not alone in feeling that way.
We already resent the admin (I'm sorry, it can't be helped.) for this change, but we further resent the fact that they are putting the ugliest consequence of this change on our shoulders. You have put us in a situation where we are forced to resent each other for the choices that need to be made and inevitably leave bad feelings. This is a social game, and so not uncommonly, we have become real friends - who are now being forced to decide which of our friends is least deserving of something we all want. It's crap, any way you slice it. I don't blame Xenthos for trying to find any way out of this, because the situation is awful. While we are resigned to the fact that this is for the best for the game over all, a modicum of sympathy for the situation we're in isn't unreasonable. I know a lot of people reading this scoff, feeling that we are fortunate enough to be having this problem, of too many deserving people... yet the sentiment Xenthos expresses is that he'd rather have no one than have to choose who gets to keep it, and he's not alone in feeling that way.
I can understand that. I do sympathize, and I know we know it's not a popular decision we've had to make. It is one however that Estarra's said feels necessary for the continued health of the game, and I can agree. I feel like we've made a lot of concessions on it (it was, if my memory serves, Glomdoring who asked for the current route, in lieu of our original idea of permanent upkeeps), and I really don't know what more we can really do. I understand Xenthos' feeling, and it might feel better for Glomdoring, but I really feel like, personally, it's something that is only going to cause a huge number of problems in other organizations, where the problem isn't 'Which do we keep' but rather will become 'is it worth giving it back to them, or should we raise someone else and now have essentially 'free' vernal demigods?'. There's just so many problems that I can see arising I just can't see it as tenable course of action.
At the day's end though, the decision's Estarra's.
If nothing, why not run a referendum? Let Glomdoring decide. If a referendum would take too long, I'm sure we can oblige and shorten the time length (I can't remember off-hand if you guys can or not for refs)
Harkux2010-08-11 16:16:12
QUOTE (thisismydisplayname @ Aug 11 2010, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
FACT: No one knew. It was a change that was announced all of a sudden several months prior.
The admins have only been saying it the last two months that it was coming 'Soon' when various suggestions for other stuff was being brought up :S It's not completely unexpected, especially since they went and refunded Ascendancy and all that.
Gregori2010-08-11 16:16:13
QUOTE (thisismydisplayname @ Aug 11 2010, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
FACT: No one knew. It was a change that was announced all of a sudden several months prior.
Thank you for proving my point.
Druken2010-08-11 16:17:25
This all just makes sense, though. Now that the specifics of vernal ascendancy have changed, all of the nations have to reorganize how they do things. It's not a blame game (seriously, stop slamming the administration with blame while they try to fix things-- that's just petulant), and it isn't some cosmic 'screw you' to the people who have earned their keep over their long histories in the various organizations.
Xenthos's idea just makes sense in the end, to wipe the slate completely clean to let every organization have a start fresh. It's really hard trying to redetermine how to do things, and while not every organization is quite so finely tuned (yet), the organizations that have micromanaged things are being forced to reconstruct everything that revolves around this entire vernal ascension design.
At the same time, a very small percentage of people in Glomdoring are deciding who stays and who goes when it's the entire organization that assists with nexus power gathering. We all help with domoths, we all help with events when they happen, and we all abide by the rules that manage personal power intake so we can support the vernal ascendants. I understand why it'd be super awesome to keep the ascendants we have, but no one has really asked the commune what it thinks yet.
And I'm sure the same goes for every other organization.
Xenthos's idea just makes sense in the end, to wipe the slate completely clean to let every organization have a start fresh. It's really hard trying to redetermine how to do things, and while not every organization is quite so finely tuned (yet), the organizations that have micromanaged things are being forced to reconstruct everything that revolves around this entire vernal ascension design.
At the same time, a very small percentage of people in Glomdoring are deciding who stays and who goes when it's the entire organization that assists with nexus power gathering. We all help with domoths, we all help with events when they happen, and we all abide by the rules that manage personal power intake so we can support the vernal ascendants. I understand why it'd be super awesome to keep the ascendants we have, but no one has really asked the commune what it thinks yet.
And I'm sure the same goes for every other organization.
Noola2010-08-11 16:17:36
QUOTE (thisismydisplayname @ Aug 11 2010, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
FACT: No one knew. It was a change that was announced all of a sudden several months prior.
Well, to be fair, the several months thing makes it not so sudden. But, it's still a tough decision. Which is why I advocate doing it lotto style and letting fate decide for you. But then, I can't even pick which Christmas/Birthday cards my sisters will like better so I wind up buying two or three for both of them.
Xenthos2010-08-11 16:17:48
QUOTE (thisismydisplayname @ Aug 11 2010, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
FACT: No one knew. It was a change that was announced all of a sudden several months prior.
Well, we roughly knew the costs (still don't know the drains).
We were not happy then, either, which is why I'm asking what the heck this comment stating "you waited until the last minute" is about. We've even had "jokes" about "calculating costs so Glomdoring loses more" thrown at us by some Administrators, which is exceedingly frustrating.
Seriously, there is no last-minute crap here, I've been very vocal all along.
Siam2010-08-11 16:18:42
QUOTE (Harkux @ Aug 12 2010, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The admins have only been saying it the last two months that it was coming 'Soon' when various suggestions for other stuff was being brought up :S It's not completely unexpected, especially since they went and refunded Ascendancy and all that.
Up until the point it was announced, it was only a possibility.
Furien2010-08-11 16:20:43
QUOTE (thisismydisplayname @ Aug 11 2010, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Up until the point it was announced, it was only a possibility.
But common sense and foresight for the sake of the game's balance indicated for almost a year now that something would be done with the Ascendant mechanics.
Retrospect is 20/20, I guess. I thought I saw this coming a mile away (and yes, rarely playing my Ascendant anymore probably has something to do with it) but I guess the feeling isn't the same for others.
Lehki2010-08-11 16:24:20
QUOTE (Sidd @ Aug 11 2010, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Right, because Glom has active ascendants, ours didn't run away to play in the new orgs. I bet Serenwilde would be in a similar situation had Alianna, Gregori, Sarrasri, Nejii still remained active and playing those characters.
It's easy enough to say stop being selfish, it's for the good of your org (the majority of our ascendants have already offered in one way or another) but it doesn't make it any less of a shitty move to do.
It's easy enough to say stop being selfish, it's for the good of your org (the majority of our ascendants have already offered in one way or another) but it doesn't make it any less of a shitty move to do.
I dunno maybe. I really just have a hard time seeing people being that upset about this. If one of them showed up and really wanted to stay ascendant I'd just step aside. I mean yeah it's new and shiny, but honestly not many of the abilities look all that interesting or zomg must have to me.
I guess besides the ones that they kept that we said should be deleted.
Noola2010-08-11 16:24:24
QUOTE (thisismydisplayname @ Aug 11 2010, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Up until the point it was announced, it was only a possibility.
That's like the physics thing where until you open your hand that tiny cat is both alive and dead? That works great theoretically, but in actual, concrete things, it's silly. You have to plan with the idea that a possibility is going to become a reality sometimes. Buy a box. If the cat's dead, use it to bury him. If it's alive, toss some litter in it and let the cat use it to poo in. Either way, you have a plan in place.
I actually do agree that Glomdoring could have picked their Ascendants already for a smoother transition. However, I also agree that it's a tough decision and whether it's tough now or it's tough earlier makes no difference, IMO.
I still advocate the random lotto idea.
Shiri2010-08-11 16:25:30
QUOTE (thisismydisplayname @ Aug 11 2010, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Up until the point it was announced, it was only a possibility.
No, I'm pretty sure the fact some ascendants were going to become reject ascendants was not only a given but the entire point of the change from Estarra's POV.
(@Sidd: you don't help your situation by annoying other people with accusations of "running away" when you have no idea why people are doing what they're doing, btw)
Xenthos2010-08-11 16:25:34
Seriously, I understand that you feel like this has to be done for the sake of the game. My point is that I feel as if it's one of those things where it's better to just do it instead of letting us linger on, tear each other apart, etc.
Just get it over with. Please.
Just get it over with. Please.
Siam2010-08-11 16:25:37
QUOTE (Gregori @ Aug 12 2010, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank you for proving my point.
I used 'several months prior,' I should have used several months prior today or this month or whatever.
Eventru2010-08-11 16:25:48
Please be at least mature in discussing the given topic. I realize emotions are running high for some people (especially the people who felt like they succeeded at something and so got it 'nerfed', something they invested a lot of their emotions in), so do be aware we're watching and can (and will) step in to keep things from getting ugly.
I know you all can conversate maturely, I've seen it! For the better part of the conversation, despite some high emotions, people've been pretty good. So let's keep on it.
I know you all can conversate maturely, I've seen it! For the better part of the conversation, despite some high emotions, people've been pretty good. So let's keep on it.
Aliod2010-08-11 16:27:54
And Of COURSE you guys are going to take a heavier loss than everyone else, you have more of them, which is why we are here in the first place.
Yes, it sucks to maybe have to throw someone under the bus when you Descend them, but let me ask you a question, how many of your VAs would throw a hissy fit over the IG CT when you said it was them that was on the chopping block, seeing as how Glomdoring is supposed to be:
"F'AI GLOMDORING."
"NOTHING MATTERS BUT GLOMDORING/TALAN."
If they do, odds are you shouldn't of spent the power on them in the first place just so you could have someone else to do a destruction sphere, or have another person to fearaura, or have another Aegis shield.
Yes, it sucks to maybe have to throw someone under the bus when you Descend them, but let me ask you a question, how many of your VAs would throw a hissy fit over the IG CT when you said it was them that was on the chopping block, seeing as how Glomdoring is supposed to be:
"F'AI GLOMDORING."
"NOTHING MATTERS BUT GLOMDORING/TALAN."
If they do, odds are you shouldn't of spent the power on them in the first place just so you could have someone else to do a destruction sphere, or have another person to fearaura, or have another Aegis shield.
Xenthos2010-08-11 16:29:47
QUOTE (Aliod @ Aug 11 2010, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And Of COURSE you guys are going to take a heavier loss than everyone else, you have more of them, which is why we are here in the first place.
Yes, it sucks to maybe have to throw someone under the bus when you Descend them, but let me ask you a question, how many of your VAs would throw a hissy fit over the IG CT when you said it was them that was on the chopping block, seeing as how Glomdoring is supposed to be:
"F'AI GLOMDORING."
"NOTHING MATTERS BUT GLOMDORING/TALAN."
If they do, odds are you shouldn't of spent the power on them in the first place just so you could have someone else to do a destruction sphere, or have another person to fearaura, or have another Aegis shield.
Yes, it sucks to maybe have to throw someone under the bus when you Descend them, but let me ask you a question, how many of your VAs would throw a hissy fit over the IG CT when you said it was them that was on the chopping block, seeing as how Glomdoring is supposed to be:
"F'AI GLOMDORING."
"NOTHING MATTERS BUT GLOMDORING/TALAN."
If they do, odds are you shouldn't of spent the power on them in the first place just so you could have someone else to do a destruction sphere, or have another person to fearaura, or have another Aegis shield.
The problem is not the IG CT.
The problem is that we are all human IRL.
I just want them to just finish this off and get it over with so we can try to pick up the pieces. That's all I'm asking for.
I really don't feel like it's out of line to do so. :/
Furien2010-08-11 16:30:52
QUOTE (Noola @ Aug 11 2010, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's like the physics thing where until you open your hand that tiny cat is both alive and dead? That works great theoretically, but in actual, concrete things, it's silly. You have to plan with the idea that a possibility is going to become a reality sometimes. Buy a box. If the cat's dead, use it to bury him. If it's alive, toss some litter in it and let the cat use it to poo in. Either way, you have a plan in place.
This has to be the most... creepy/morbid/cute/logical Noola statement I have ever read.