Unknown2010-08-16 00:40:57
Tradeskill should be relatively less expensive too! With aetherhunting taking a hit, it just got effectively more expensive. 
Ssaliss2010-08-16 00:48:56
Yeah I find it odd that it's almost ten times as expensive as the next item on the list (customshout and customzap at 8m).
Also, does anyone know how big of a hit aetherhunting took?
I find it odd that it's almost ten times as expensive as the next item on the list (customshout and customzap at 8m).Also, does anyone know how big of a hit aetherhunting took?
Eventru2010-08-16 00:52:05
Tradeskills are intended to be expensive (there was some talk of increasing the costs, which could have a strong argument in favour of - 3 such slots sold for 2,000+ credits a piece). The weight being at 80 on BeauteousThought was a woops - was surprised no one mentioned it really, but at least we noticed it and brought that down.
Xenthos2010-08-16 00:53:50
QUOTE (Eventru @ Aug 15 2010, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tradeskills are intended to be expensive (there was some talk of increasing the costs, which could have a strong argument in favour of - 3 such slots sold for 2,000+ credits a piece). The weight being at 80 on BeauteousThought was a woops - was surprised no one mentioned it really, but at least we noticed it and brought that down.
It was mentioned in the general "Some of the Ascendance things are overweighted" part, but the primary focus was the Demigod-weighting-things.
Glad you caught that one-- aegis could stand to be 30-35 though, instead of 50. Still leaving it relatively high since the Ascendant things appear to have a higher weight in general for a reason, but it's a bit over-weighted as well IMO.
Lehki2010-08-16 00:54:21
I wonder if bumping up the time for JudiciousPresence and HavocCry from 15 to 30 min would be too much? Would really like to take a group buff, but 15 min once an hour seems a little weak, would even prefer having 1 hour once a day to that.
Xenthos2010-08-16 00:56:21
QUOTE (Lehki @ Aug 15 2010, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wonder if bumping up the time for JudiciousPresence and HavocCry from 15 to 30 min would be too much? Would really like to take a group buff, but 15 min once an hour seems a little weak, would even prefer having 1 hour once a day to that.
Bumping up HavocCry especially would be insane. If anything, it should be decreased to 7-8 minutes.
Unknown2010-08-16 00:58:12
Havoc Cry and Judicious Presence lasting that long once per IC day is fine for the cost and weight, IMO.
I agree that perhaps Aegis could use some looking into since it's got its own drawbacks, and it's biggest abuse (aegis/divinefire) is no longer literally possible.
Edit 1: I'd like the beast powers to be like havoc cry/judicious presence myself, have those imbues last 15 minutes, but you can do it once per IC day. Right now, it is 1 hour but only once per RL day.
Edit 2: When you're doing POWERS REMOVE (power) and it's supernumerary, can you consider giving back a portion of the essence spent for the supernumerary power back? It'll be kind of a bummer for those who buy anything at all when the admin inevitably add new/interesting powers and the demis have to drop some powers to make room for others.
I agree that perhaps Aegis could use some looking into since it's got its own drawbacks, and it's biggest abuse (aegis/divinefire) is no longer literally possible.
Edit 1: I'd like the beast powers to be like havoc cry/judicious presence myself, have those imbues last 15 minutes, but you can do it once per IC day. Right now, it is 1 hour but only once per RL day.
Edit 2: When you're doing POWERS REMOVE (power) and it's supernumerary, can you consider giving back a portion of the essence spent for the supernumerary power back? It'll be kind of a bummer for those who buy anything at all when the admin inevitably add new/interesting powers and the demis have to drop some powers to make room for others.
Thendis2010-08-16 01:16:58
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Aug 15 2010, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Glad you caught that one-- aegis could stand to be 30-35 though, instead of 50. Still leaving it relatively high since the Ascendant things appear to have a higher weight in general for a reason, but it's a bit over-weighted as well IMO.
Yeah, if I ever manipulate my way into TA, I would want that without spending 1/3rd my weight.
Xenthos2010-08-16 01:38:26
Now that the Demi stuff is in and looks like it's in a better shape, I'd like to look at some of the Ascendant things as well:
Suggestions:
So, with this: If you buy Fearaura and Destruction (two of the most oft-complained about abilities) you're down 80/150. Toss in Aegis and you're at 110/150, which means fewer than 50 weight points left for all the rest of the 'neat stuff'; that's not going to go very far, especially when you haven't even bought any of the old Demi stuff that you have already lost.
Suggestions:
CODE
Name                        Was | Change To        Was    | Change To
------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Affinity                    30 | 20              15000000 | 10,000,000
  - Useful, but limited to just your own organization's territory or if you have someone to terrain for you, or are a Druid/Mage/have a censer.
* Gift                        10 | 10              8000000  | 5,000,000
  - Just reduced essence cost, Ascendant stuff probably shouldn't go to a lower weight than 10.  I'm going with a minimum of 15 elsewhere, but this was already below that
* Harvest                      20 | 15              12000000 | 5,000,000
  - Random harvest, it's more of a "neat skill" so I reduced weight and essence cost
* Aegis                        50 | 30              25000000 | 15,000,000
  - Aegis can no longer be abused by linking with DF.  It's nice, but not 50-weight-nice IMO.  Also, essence cost.
* JudiciousPresence            15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Leaving the weight the same, adjusting essence cost
* EvenHandedBlessing          25 | 25              12000000 | 10,000,000
  - Leaving the weight the same, adjusting essence cost
* Destruction                  50 | 40              12000000 | 10,000,000
  - Lowered the weight by 10, essence at 10 mil
* HavocCry                    25 | 30              12000000 | 10,000,000
  - Increased the weight by 5 simply because damage stacking is starting to get rather crazy... and so it should take up a fair bit of weight to go for it.  Essence cost also decreased.
* Thunderclap                  15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Lowered essence cost
* FearAura                    50 | 40              25000000 | 20,000,000
  - Weight to 40, essence lowered slightly
* DeathAura                    30 | 30              15000000 | 10,000,000
  - Essence cost readjusted
* Urlife                      15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Essence cost readjusted
* BreathOfLife                30 | 25              20000000 | 15,000,000
  - Lowered weight and essence cost slightly
* SanctityOfBody              15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Essence cost readjusted slightly
* PurityOfSoul                30 | 30              15000000 | 10,000,000
  - Essence cost readjusted
* FortunateWindfalls          20 | 15              12000000 | 5,000,000
  - Another 'random' skill for 'fun'-- cost and weight adjusted to match this
* Dispersal                    35 | 25              18000000 | 10,000,000
  - Not sure it's worth the current weight and cost, so I am readjusting.  It's like Night Flight, same limitations / restrictions I am given to understand, and Night Flight's been given quite a few of those over the years)
* CompatriotOfChaos            15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Essence readjustment)
* QuietMind                    35 | 25              18000000 | 10,000,000
  - For influencing; adjusted weight and essence cost)
* PlenipotentiaryOfPeace      15 | 15                5000000 | 1,000,000
  - This is really of limited use.  It saves a bit of gold for a -lot- of essence and weight... I'm not sure who would buy this permanently, so I've made it something that MIGHT be more appealing temporarily.  If you're doing a lot of amnesties all at once.
* PeacefulCompanion            25 | 25              12000000 | 8,000,000
  - Essence adjustment)
* BeauteousWorkings            15 | 10              15000000 | 5,000,000
  - Just a RP quirk really, so adjusted its weight and essence cost
* OstensibleDreamer            50 | 25              18000000 | 5,000,000
  - Improved illusions seeing-through is most definitely not worth 50 weight here!
* BeauteousThought            15 | 15              80000000 | 80,000,000
  - Leaving this the same
* KnowledgeAwareness          30 | 25              12000000 | 5,000,00
  - Because this requires already having purchased SEEK, so that cost is added onto this already
* IntrinsicUnderstanding      40 | 35              15000000 | 10,000,000
  - Just a very minor tweak along with the re-weighting of other things)
* DistantPerceptions          20 | 20              10000000 | 10,000,000
  - Leaving this one alone because it's LOS listening to says
------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Affinity                    30 | 20              15000000 | 10,000,000
  - Useful, but limited to just your own organization's territory or if you have someone to terrain for you, or are a Druid/Mage/have a censer.
* Gift                        10 | 10              8000000  | 5,000,000
  - Just reduced essence cost, Ascendant stuff probably shouldn't go to a lower weight than 10.  I'm going with a minimum of 15 elsewhere, but this was already below that
* Harvest                      20 | 15              12000000 | 5,000,000
  - Random harvest, it's more of a "neat skill" so I reduced weight and essence cost
* Aegis                        50 | 30              25000000 | 15,000,000
  - Aegis can no longer be abused by linking with DF.  It's nice, but not 50-weight-nice IMO.  Also, essence cost.
* JudiciousPresence            15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Leaving the weight the same, adjusting essence cost
* EvenHandedBlessing          25 | 25              12000000 | 10,000,000
  - Leaving the weight the same, adjusting essence cost
* Destruction                  50 | 40              12000000 | 10,000,000
  - Lowered the weight by 10, essence at 10 mil
* HavocCry                    25 | 30              12000000 | 10,000,000
  - Increased the weight by 5 simply because damage stacking is starting to get rather crazy... and so it should take up a fair bit of weight to go for it.  Essence cost also decreased.
* Thunderclap                  15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Lowered essence cost
* FearAura                    50 | 40              25000000 | 20,000,000
  - Weight to 40, essence lowered slightly
* DeathAura                    30 | 30              15000000 | 10,000,000
  - Essence cost readjusted
* Urlife                      15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Essence cost readjusted
* BreathOfLife                30 | 25              20000000 | 15,000,000
  - Lowered weight and essence cost slightly
* SanctityOfBody              15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Essence cost readjusted slightly
* PurityOfSoul                30 | 30              15000000 | 10,000,000
  - Essence cost readjusted
* FortunateWindfalls          20 | 15              12000000 | 5,000,000
  - Another 'random' skill for 'fun'-- cost and weight adjusted to match this
* Dispersal                    35 | 25              18000000 | 10,000,000
  - Not sure it's worth the current weight and cost, so I am readjusting.  It's like Night Flight, same limitations / restrictions I am given to understand, and Night Flight's been given quite a few of those over the years)
* CompatriotOfChaos            15 | 15                8000000 | 5,000,000
  - Essence readjustment)
* QuietMind                    35 | 25              18000000 | 10,000,000
  - For influencing; adjusted weight and essence cost)
* PlenipotentiaryOfPeace      15 | 15                5000000 | 1,000,000
  - This is really of limited use.  It saves a bit of gold for a -lot- of essence and weight... I'm not sure who would buy this permanently, so I've made it something that MIGHT be more appealing temporarily.  If you're doing a lot of amnesties all at once.
* PeacefulCompanion            25 | 25              12000000 | 8,000,000
  - Essence adjustment)
* BeauteousWorkings            15 | 10              15000000 | 5,000,000
  - Just a RP quirk really, so adjusted its weight and essence cost
* OstensibleDreamer            50 | 25              18000000 | 5,000,000
  - Improved illusions seeing-through is most definitely not worth 50 weight here!
* BeauteousThought            15 | 15              80000000 | 80,000,000
  - Leaving this the same
* KnowledgeAwareness          30 | 25              12000000 | 5,000,00
  - Because this requires already having purchased SEEK, so that cost is added onto this already
* IntrinsicUnderstanding      40 | 35              15000000 | 10,000,000
  - Just a very minor tweak along with the re-weighting of other things)
* DistantPerceptions          20 | 20              10000000 | 10,000,000
  - Leaving this one alone because it's LOS listening to says
So, with this: If you buy Fearaura and Destruction (two of the most oft-complained about abilities) you're down 80/150. Toss in Aegis and you're at 110/150, which means fewer than 50 weight points left for all the rest of the 'neat stuff'; that's not going to go very far, especially when you haven't even bought any of the old Demi stuff that you have already lost.
Unknown2010-08-16 01:49:26
Time to spend essence some time this evening.
Furien2010-08-16 02:02:49
A second/third/fourth tradeskill is hardly a mere RP quirk. :/
Xenthos2010-08-16 02:03:42
QUOTE (Furien @ Aug 15 2010, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A second/third/fourth tradeskill is hardly a mere RP quirk. :/
That's BeauteousThought, not BeauteousWorkings.
I left BeauteousThought alone.
BeauteousWorkings just puts a new crafted-by message on stuff you create.
Edit: I suppose it does actually do some other things as well, so the weighting might not need to go down quite as much; but the stuff it imparts is still of small impact (increase prestige of clothing / jewellery a bit, food a bit more filling, or the furniture they create takes up a bit less room). Then it does the markings as well.
Unknown2010-08-16 02:23:13
QUOTE (Furien @ Aug 15 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A second/third/fourth tradeskill is hardly a mere RP quirk. :/
With the advent of skillflexing, it is more RP quirk than actively useful once you go beyond two trade skills, really. There's not that much synergy you can get beyond that which you couldn't tap with skillflex.
Rika2010-08-16 04:29:28
Yay for decreased weightings/essence costs. However, I'd like to propose another change. That is, lowering the essence loss of dying in an enemy territory that is not organisational territory. I believe the 2 mil/death thing was put in to discourage people from raiding too much. That is fine, except it also affects most high-level solo bashing territories, such as the Prison/Hives. It was not such a big problem back when essence meant nothing, but now with us having to buy our powers with essence, 2 million a death is way too harsh just because a random griefer/bored person who wants to stroke their epeen went out to kill someone minding their own business, hunting in a place that enemies.
A large problem with essence/experience in general that became glaringly obvious when these changes were implemented is that there is a large discrepancy between potential gains in aetherhunting and solo hunting. Even astral hunting, which we have already said requires multiple people to take advantage of increasing returns, is nowhere near the same level as aetherhunting. By having such a large risk involved in high-level solo hunting areas, the lolafkaetherhunting mentality is only encouraged further. I wouldn't be against raising essence loss of aetherhunting significantly, either.
A large problem with essence/experience in general that became glaringly obvious when these changes were implemented is that there is a large discrepancy between potential gains in aetherhunting and solo hunting. Even astral hunting, which we have already said requires multiple people to take advantage of increasing returns, is nowhere near the same level as aetherhunting. By having such a large risk involved in high-level solo hunting areas, the lolafkaetherhunting mentality is only encouraged further. I wouldn't be against raising essence loss of aetherhunting significantly, either.
Eventru2010-08-16 04:30:38
We've already lowered essence for aetherhunting today.
Think we'd rather want to see how it goes before going further...
Think we'd rather want to see how it goes before going further...
Ssaliss2010-08-16 04:37:08
Haven't been able to get an answer IC or OOC, but how much was it changed, roughly?
Rika2010-08-16 04:39:05
QUOTE (Eventru @ Aug 16 2010, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We've already lowered essence for aetherhunting today.
Think we'd rather want to see how it goes before going further...
Think we'd rather want to see how it goes before going further...
It doesn't make solo prime high-level hunting any better, though. It still takes many hours just to recover that essence which... requires more of the same.
Razenth2010-08-16 04:58:45
Influence more!
Unknown2010-08-16 05:09:12
QUOTE (Ssaliss @ Aug 15 2010, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Haven't been able to get an answer IC or OOC, but how much was it changed, roughly?
40% down, I believe.
Yay, second tradeskill. I'll never forget you again, Poisons!
Ssaliss2010-08-16 05:11:40
40%??? Egads, that's a lot... I'm starting to wonder if there'll be many more aetherhunts at all anymore.
