Demigod Tweaks

by Sior

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2010-08-12 01:02:59
For the sake of suggestion-

Give everyone a free 50 weight points to start, and you'll see a lot of the depressed low essence demis perk up. See poll.

They'll still be losing most things to conform to the system, but, to put it in the words of the upset friend I've mentioned, at least they won't feel like a "glorified titan".
Razenth2010-08-12 01:07:24
I disagree with Shuyin's suggestion of making Ephemerals cost double weight.

I propose instead they should be half cost.
Sior2010-08-12 01:08:03
I've set up my test server: 173.79.153.163 port 2000.

Demigods can use the command "gimmeessence" to give a big base boost of essence.
Lendren2010-08-12 01:08:27
I think there are only two tweaks that are urgently needed:

1) Make more powers available to the demigods somehow. We've thrown ideas at you, but only because you've dodged the simpler point that you already have a nice selection of them, and you simply aren't letting 90% of us touch them. If you really have to preserve the separation more than the tripled-points thing and the vast-superiority-in-domoths thing already do, do it some other way, like by making it so we can only buy them as ephemeral, or something.

2) Adjust costs (maybe via Shuyin's numbers, I have no opinion on that) such that demigods can get at least half of what they had before (excluding DF) and some of the new stuff. It's fine if they have to work for the essence to do that -- people might be upset today about it, but a year from now they'll have forgotten the essence-grind. I think the ideal balance would look like this:
  • Buy everything you had as a demigod before (minus DF) for precisely as many supernumerary points as you get as a demigod, OR
  • Give up some of those things (and then buy them only temporarily as needed as ephemeral) and buy two or three of the new gee whiz things.

Without doing #2, #1 would be a waste of time. They both have to happen -- either one alone won't help.

Minor tweaks that would be nice:
  • Reduce the cost of 'flavor' things with no or minimal combat or utility effect considerably. (An exception can be made for anything that takes up admin time to approve.)
  • Either delete DivineFire, or replace it with a cheaper version that's gimped as a raiding tool -- "can't be used in enemy territory" and "org guards hit through it" should be 90% of the way to doing that, I'm sure people can suggest ways to plug the other 10%.
Lehki2010-08-12 01:09:31
QUOTE (Sior the Anomaly @ Aug 11 2010, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've set up my test server: 173.79.153.163 port 2000.

Demigods can use the command "gimmeessence" to give a big base boost of essence.

<3

EDIT: I try to connect and it tells me my password is incorrect.
Nariah2010-08-12 01:09:59
Would it be possible for demigods to absorb essence from esteem-imbued items perhaps? The amount could be based on luck/expertise due to their ineptitude whilst Ascendants could do it properly. For Ascendants it could be an innate ability whilst Demigods would have to purchase it for example (for a price within reason, of course). It would both ease somewhat the heavy burdens ahead of us, and provide another market for esteem and influencing skills.

Along with other suggestions to lower the costs, I am hoping for a serious lowering of the cost of Veneration, especially since it will take such a huge amount of essence to master it afterwards (a cost perhaps that too would do with tweaking), and for Cult members to be able to donate essence going towards the study of Veneration, and thus require the Cult Leader to meditate at the altar for extended periods of time to absorb it all.

Other than lowering costs and perhaps adding new powers along the way, I am very excited for the system!
Lorina2010-08-12 01:12:09
QUOTE (Nariah @ Aug 11 2010, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would it be possible for demigods to absorb essence from esteem-imbued items perhaps? The amount could be based on luck/expertise due to their ineptitude whilst Ascendants could do it properly. For Ascendants it could be an innate ability whilst Demigods would have to purchase it for example (for a price within reason, of course). It would both ease somewhat the heavy burdens ahead of us, and provide another market for esteem and influencing skills.

Along with other suggestions to lower the costs, I am hoping for a serious lowering of the cost of Veneration, especially since it will take such a huge amount of essence to master it afterwards (a cost perhaps that too would do with tweaking), and for Cult members to be able to donate essence going towards the study of Veneration, and thus require the Cult Leader to meditate at the altar for extended periods of time to absorb it all.

Other than lowering costs and perhaps adding new powers along the way, I am very excited for the system!


Fantastic news, Cult essence is used for learning Veneration. smile.gif
It was changed today.
Ssaliss2010-08-12 01:24:11
QUOTE (Lendren @ Aug 12 2010, 03:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
  • Either delete DivineFire, or replace it with a cheaper version that's gimped as a raiding tool -- "can't be used in enemy territory" and "org guards hit through it" should be 90% of the way to doing that, I'm sure people can suggest ways to plug the other 10%.

One way I thought of that would severely limit its effectiveness as a raiding/kick-and-run tool would be to limit it so you can't have done anything aggressive to either a player or an org-loyal mob within the last... say 20 seconds? You'd still be able to activate it while bashing though (unless you go to bash daughters/ladies).
Aicuthi2010-08-12 01:27:38
QUOTE (Lendren @ Aug 12 2010, 12:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Are those of us who helped you test the current system by buying in before the changes going to get the differences (for better or worse) adjusted?



QUOTE (Lendren @ Aug 12 2010, 01:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think there are only two tweaks that are urgently needed:

1) Make more powers available to the demigods somehow. We've thrown ideas at you, but only because you've dodged the simpler point that you already have a nice selection of them, and you simply aren't letting 90% of us touch them. If you really have to preserve the separation more than the tripled-points thing and the vast-superiority-in-domoths thing already do, do it some other way, like by making it so we can only buy them as ephemeral, or something.


Pardon my disagreement, but I don't think anyone who is an ephemeral or has helped test the system should get a coded leg-up on the rest of the ordinary playerbase. Unless it was just in essence prices, and for a temporary time. Sorry if I'm completely misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
Xenthos2010-08-12 01:28:35
QUOTE (Aicuthi @ Aug 11 2010, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pardon my disagreement, but I don't think anyone who is an ephemeral or has helped test the system should get a coded leg-up on the rest of the ordinary playerbase. Unless it was just in essence prices, and for a temporary time. Sorry if I'm completely misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

You are. Ephemeral powers in this system != ephemerals (admin helpers).

And Lendren is talking about how he already bought some powers on his character.
Aicuthi2010-08-12 01:29:49
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Aug 12 2010, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You are. Ephemeral powers in this system != ephemerals (admin helpers).

And Lendren is talking about how he already bought some powers on his character.


Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying, was a bit confused there for a second. freaked.gif
Xenthos2010-08-12 01:35:50
QUOTE (Lusternia Test Server)
gimmeessence

Too much already.
Unknown2010-08-12 01:40:25
From testing a little bit:
  • You need the Seek power to do anything with KnowledgeAwareness, so it would be nice to make that clear. Even better, make it dependent so you can't select KnowledgeAwareness without Seek... or make KnowledgeAwareness just include Seek and you won't need both.
  • Removing SecondTradeskill or BeauteousThought makes a random trade skill dormant. I started with Poisons (Trans), selected Herbs (Inept), and then activated Forging (Trans). When I removed BeauteousThought, it made Forging dormant. When I removed SecondTradeskill, Poisons went dormant. So, either we should be making the trade skill dormant before removing the power (only possible if you do the removing, as opposed to losing your weight points and having it forcibly removed) or we should get a way to choose which trade skill to make dormant when removing the power.
Ixion2010-08-12 01:41:17
QUOTE (Lorina @ Aug 11 2010, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fantastic news, Cult essence is used for learning Veneration. smile.gif
It was changed today.


NICE.
Lendren2010-08-12 02:08:17
Yeah, that word's going to be confusing from now on.
Lehki2010-08-12 02:30:18
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Aug 11 2010, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
From testing a little bit:
  • You need the Seek power to do anything with KnowledgeAwareness, so it would be nice to make that clear. Even better, make it dependent so you can't select KnowledgeAwareness without Seek... or make KnowledgeAwareness just include Seek and you won't need both.
  • Removing SecondTradeskill or BeauteousThought makes a random trade skill dormant. I started with Poisons (Trans), selected Herbs (Inept), and then activated Forging (Trans). When I removed BeauteousThought, it made Forging dormant. When I removed SecondTradeskill, Poisons went dormant. So, either we should be making the trade skill dormant before removing the power (only possible if you do the removing, as opposed to losing your weight points and having it forcibly removed) or we should get a way to choose which trade skill to make dormant when removing the power.

It says it right there in the description that you'll lose a random tradeskill.
Ssaliss2010-08-12 02:31:46
QUOTE (Lehki @ Aug 12 2010, 04:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It says it right there in the description that you'll lose a random tradeskill.

It doesn't in secondtradeskill though. Might be a good addition there as well.
Rakor2010-08-12 02:37:02
QUOTE (Lorina @ Aug 11 2010, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fantastic news, Cult essence is used for learning Veneration. smile.gif
It was changed today.

Two thumbs up!
Ixion2010-08-12 02:43:20
+Please put a once per month restriction on even handed justice. I'd rather not have someone spam it and drop demon lords every week.

+Please put restrictions on breathe of life. Enemies could ress you in enemy terr just to kill you again (illegal but the option shouldnt be there). Infinite (just about, only requires essence to cast), remote soul ress is too strong IMO.

I'm sure I'll have more once the ascedants post logs up about the new powers (which they should be doing...).
Ytran2010-08-12 02:50:56
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Aug 11 2010, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Up weight totals as follows:
Demigods: 500.
Vernal Demigods: 750.
Ascendants: 1000.

This allows for weighting of 20 and such (nice rounds 5s as the system seems to like) versus 1s and 2s.

Without knowing how they have it set up for certain, I'm going to say this is probably not possible at the moment. You could probably go 100/150/200 if something like this was wanted, though.

In other news, Shuyin's ideas are wonderful. Make it so.