Anisu2010-08-26 14:49:03
It is more then likely Glomdoring can nolonger provide for the comm demand of the entire basin. Comm demand was delibrately increased by admins to provide a higher need then production to bring down stock levels. Glomdoring very nicely cooperated with this lowering prices, making stocks available and now (though not sure about every comm) they come to a point they have to employ protectionism to keep any form of stock and since the system will remain geared to more use of comms then production will have to stick to it.
Talan really had 3 options:
1. increase prices so the entire basin, including other orgs, nolonger feel the need to buy them out. (bad for glom traders)
2. Somehow limit who can buy commodities and leave cheap comms available to org members who worked on getting those villages.
3. leave it as it is, keeping a minimum stock level and selling 0 comms for a while, thus leaving glom traders to seek comms elsewhere.
Talan took the method best for her commune members. And had the change not occured they would have done what Celest did so long ago: lock down the commstore so nobody but the council can physicly enter and make members contact them to purchase comms. (or the now easier version of using shop rifts in commune and guild stores)
Talan really had 3 options:
1. increase prices so the entire basin, including other orgs, nolonger feel the need to buy them out. (bad for glom traders)
2. Somehow limit who can buy commodities and leave cheap comms available to org members who worked on getting those villages.
3. leave it as it is, keeping a minimum stock level and selling 0 comms for a while, thus leaving glom traders to seek comms elsewhere.
Talan took the method best for her commune members. And had the change not occured they would have done what Celest did so long ago: lock down the commstore so nobody but the council can physicly enter and make members contact them to purchase comms. (or the now easier version of using shop rifts in commune and guild stores)
Xenthos2010-08-26 14:53:05
QUOTE (Tekora @ Aug 26 2010, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No sooner than Comm Shop privs are implemented do we see that Glomdoring, overstock capital of the world, has closed their commodities warehouse to all non-Gloms.
You stay classy, Glomdoring.
You stay classy, Glomdoring.
Your timing is off.
Talan announced closing the commodity shop a couple hours prior to this going in (which I would speculate was at least some incentive for them actually reviewing it, since her post on the matter specifically stated that Glomdoring had been supplying the Basin with commodities ever since this whole fiasco started and hopefully by no longer propping everything up, others would start seeing the issues inherent in the system).
It also could have just been very fortunate timing from our end, but yeah. Can you blame us for not wanting to throw all our commodities away and leaving others with the impression that things are 'just fine' when they're not? Further, looking at your wares lists, that's not even price policies! That's her having adjusted reserves upwards to no longer sell things that the Glomdoring does not want to sell any more of. Again, something which was possible (and not just possible, but was done) prior to this change going in. We see the exact same list you do, because it has nothing to do with price policies. We can just request that she release some number for personal use if we need it badly. Otherwise, we're on rationing as well.
Essentially: If you want comms, go make your own comms, or talk with the Administration about commodity production being screwy. Don't expect Glomdoring to keep providing you with everything forever, because eventually we would have run out anyways; we're just protecting what supplies we have left instead of running out and then listening to you complain at that time instead.
Unknown2010-08-26 14:54:15
QUOTE (Anisu @ Aug 26 2010, 09:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is more then likely Glomdoring can nolonger provide for the comm demand of the entire basin.
People will vary in how they interpret this, so allow me to help:
For perspective, Talan had informed me that Glomdoring has sold over two million sovereigns worth of commodities since the commodity overhaul was implemented.
Compare to the cost of the commodities. Think in the long term. Make your own conclusion.
Lendren2010-08-26 16:34:26
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Aug 26 2010, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Essentially: If you want comms, go make your own comms, or talk with the Administration about commodity production being screwy. Don't expect Glomdoring to keep providing you with everything forever, because eventually we would have run out anyways; we're just protecting what supplies we have left instead of running out and then listening to you complain at that time instead.
I hate to admit it, but Xenthos has it right here. The worst Glomdoring is doing is forcing the administration to look at the question sooner. Why they are so eager to eliminate big stockpiles is a puzzle to me, but no stockpile will ever answer the idea that consumption significantly outpaces production, except temporarily. Making a comparison between Glomdoring's strategy and failed trade protectionism policies in the real world misses the point that the issue doesn't really compare to the real world.
That said, any trade minister who uses these policies to completely close off trade to outsiders is a fool, when they can just offer double (or worse) prices to outsiders instead. That's the one place where analogies to the failure of trade protectionism do apply.
Nihmriel2010-08-26 17:06:55
QUOTE (Talan @ Aug 26 2010, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Forgive me for not having the exact figures...
CODE
              what you thought      what we thought
steel                  200                75-100
gems                  250                108-150
silver                  145                50-90
marble                125                60-70
grain                    30                18-20
meat                    50                5-16
silk                    125                50-75
milk                    25                  10-12
poultry                40                  10-15
fish                      35                  5-16
fruit                    20                  12-14
wood                  85                  28-80
vegetables          15                  12-14
eggs                    10                  8
iron                  125                  60-90
leather                65                  15-30
coal                    35                  10-20
platinum            155                  80-100
cloth                  50                  16-40 Â
gold                  150                  80-90
rope                  60                  20-30
steel                  200                75-100
gems                  250                108-150
silver                  145                50-90
marble                125                60-70
grain                    30                18-20
meat                    50                5-16
silk                    125                50-75
milk                    25                  10-12
poultry                40                  10-15
fish                      35                  5-16
fruit                    20                  12-14
wood                  85                  28-80
vegetables          15                  12-14
eggs                    10                  8
iron                  125                  60-90
leather                65                  15-30
coal                    35                  10-20
platinum            155                  80-100
cloth                  50                  16-40 Â
gold                  150                  80-90
rope                  60                  20-30
This certainly explains some of the confusion. It's very worrying to me, because the new list of 'low' prices is far, far more than I would ever have considered paying under the old system. This is problematic because at this rate, I'll be obliged to approximately triple all prices in my shop, and I guess I can look forward to seeing nobody willing to pay that for tailored items that don't have a specific use, when all of the buyers' available gold is being poured into supplying themselves with greatrobes and so on.
I'm also still hoping for a response to the issue of acquiring comms in large quantities. I don't recall seeing any comment on this. Since the change I've been able to acquire a mere fraction of the materials I need for my shop. If I accept 50 as the new average price for cloth, and so on, I'll be able to acquire a bit more, but given how far the prices jump with each purchase of ten, it's not going to be feasible to just keep buying and ignore the cost. Spending six hours a day running sheep and spinnerets is a monumental waste of life, so I'm still looking at being far short of the quantity that I need.
Since the change my two favourite hobbies in-game, shopkeeping and designing, have suddenly become virtually impossible and pointless respectively. Unsurprisingly I find myself spending progressively less time in game. This leaves me feeling increasingly unhappy and other large shopkeepers are experiencing much the same, so I'll reiterate my hope that the next round of 'tweaks' will address more than just the rate of tithes to cities.
Shaddus2010-08-26 17:13:38
QUOTE (Nihmriel @ Aug 26 2010, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Spending six hours a day running sheep and spinnerets is a monumental waste of life, so I'm still looking at being far short of the quantity that I need.
Since the change my two favourite hobbies in-game, shopkeeping and designing, have suddenly become virtually impossible and pointless respectively. Unsurprisingly I find myself spending progressively less time in game. This leaves me feeling increasingly unhappy and other large shopkeepers are experiencing much the same, so I'll reiterate my hope that the next round of 'tweaks' will address more than just the rate of tithes to cities.
Since the change my two favourite hobbies in-game, shopkeeping and designing, have suddenly become virtually impossible and pointless respectively. Unsurprisingly I find myself spending progressively less time in game. This leaves me feeling increasingly unhappy and other large shopkeepers are experiencing much the same, so I'll reiterate my hope that the next round of 'tweaks' will address more than just the rate of tithes to cities.
This.
Talan2010-08-26 17:38:39
Regarding Glom's price policies...
I made a post yesterday morning to Glom's Court clan basically saying that I would no longer be freeing up our reserves of most-used commodities. What I said in my post was that I felt like we were artificially supporting the village production scheme with our reserves. The only way to test this theory is to stop using our reserves. When price policies came out, I just said to hell with it and blocked all but Glomdoring. It wasn't meant to be an offending gesture. I don't think we should be looking to balance the production system around anyone's finite reserves.
The administrators who make decisions about the commodities, tweaking the balance of production and whatnot, do not play the game. Sometimes, they do not know how things actually work, only how they are supposed to work. This isn't meant to be an offending statement either, it's simply true. When these disconnect occur, the only way to get the message across is to them is direct feedback. Angry, frustrated feedback. (sorry!)
So if it takes Glomdoring not supplying multiple orgs (I can't imagine any one org supplying multiple orgs in the long term is intended.) for a little while to find the right balance in the new system, hopefully you'll accept that. I'm aware it's inconvenient for now, but I hope it will turn out for the best.
I made a post yesterday morning to Glom's Court clan basically saying that I would no longer be freeing up our reserves of most-used commodities. What I said in my post was that I felt like we were artificially supporting the village production scheme with our reserves. The only way to test this theory is to stop using our reserves. When price policies came out, I just said to hell with it and blocked all but Glomdoring. It wasn't meant to be an offending gesture. I don't think we should be looking to balance the production system around anyone's finite reserves.
The administrators who make decisions about the commodities, tweaking the balance of production and whatnot, do not play the game. Sometimes, they do not know how things actually work, only how they are supposed to work. This isn't meant to be an offending statement either, it's simply true. When these disconnect occur, the only way to get the message across is to them is direct feedback. Angry, frustrated feedback. (sorry!)
So if it takes Glomdoring not supplying multiple orgs (I can't imagine any one org supplying multiple orgs in the long term is intended.) for a little while to find the right balance in the new system, hopefully you'll accept that. I'm aware it's inconvenient for now, but I hope it will turn out for the best.
Ileein2010-08-26 17:56:15
I can honestly state that with the commodity and trade situation the way it is, I will not be looking to purchase new clothing, jewelery, and the like in the forseeable future, which is a pity, as those areas of the game are some of my most favorite.
Unknown2010-08-26 17:59:06
My fear, and the fact that we can now block orgs out of shops confirms it for me, is that choking out orgs is the admins intentions with the changes. I'm not exactly sure why. Maybe they think Glomdoring has held so many villages just because no one else is trying and they want to push people to claim them. That's not true but I'm not sure what the reasoning is. But I don't know if much will change when orgs find themselves empty because that seems like the whole plan.
Unknown2010-08-26 18:06:53
QUOTE (Nihmriel @ Aug 26 2010, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This certainly explains some of the confusion. It's very worrying to me, because the new list of 'low' prices is far, far more than I would ever have considered paying under the old system. This is problematic because at this rate, I'll be obliged to approximately triple all prices in my shop, and I guess I can look forward to seeing nobody willing to pay that for tailored items that don't have a specific use, when all of the buyers' available gold is being poured into supplying themselves with greatrobes and so on.
I'm also still hoping for a response to the issue of acquiring comms in large quantities. I don't recall seeing any comment on this. Since the change I've been able to acquire a mere fraction of the materials I need for my shop. If I accept 50 as the new average price for cloth, and so on, I'll be able to acquire a bit more, but given how far the prices jump with each purchase of ten, it's not going to be feasible to just keep buying and ignore the cost. Spending six hours a day running sheep and spinnerets is a monumental waste of life, so I'm still looking at being far short of the quantity that I need.
Since the change my two favourite hobbies in-game, shopkeeping and designing, have suddenly become virtually impossible and pointless respectively. Unsurprisingly I find myself spending progressively less time in game. This leaves me feeling increasingly unhappy and other large shopkeepers are experiencing much the same, so I'll reiterate my hope that the next round of 'tweaks' will address more than just the rate of tithes to cities.
I'm also still hoping for a response to the issue of acquiring comms in large quantities. I don't recall seeing any comment on this. Since the change I've been able to acquire a mere fraction of the materials I need for my shop. If I accept 50 as the new average price for cloth, and so on, I'll be able to acquire a bit more, but given how far the prices jump with each purchase of ten, it's not going to be feasible to just keep buying and ignore the cost. Spending six hours a day running sheep and spinnerets is a monumental waste of life, so I'm still looking at being far short of the quantity that I need.
Since the change my two favourite hobbies in-game, shopkeeping and designing, have suddenly become virtually impossible and pointless respectively. Unsurprisingly I find myself spending progressively less time in game. This leaves me feeling increasingly unhappy and other large shopkeepers are experiencing much the same, so I'll reiterate my hope that the next round of 'tweaks' will address more than just the rate of tithes to cities.
QFT.
Unknown2010-08-26 18:49:51
Honest gut reaction from me?
Demigod changes were offensive.
These comm changes are untenable.
I will keep playing, simply because I have no life and as long as there is at least one other active trader in each trade who has no life either and is willing to run comms all day to supply me, I will survive. However, I am disgusted, and beyond my continuing membership, I will no longer be purchasing credits until an extensive change to the number of comms required for designs, or the 'average price' is instituted.
If this issue is significant enough to the playerbase, they will stop purchasing credits until it is repaired. Let your economics speak for your economics. Colloquially, let the playerbase put their money where their mouth is.
Edit: To clear up a question I recieved, I'm continuing my membership because to cancel it would hurt me more than my protest, as I'd have to wait months further for it to build back up. If no longer buying supplementary credits doesn't work, I'll contemplate dropping that as well.
Demigod changes were offensive.
These comm changes are untenable.
I will keep playing, simply because I have no life and as long as there is at least one other active trader in each trade who has no life either and is willing to run comms all day to supply me, I will survive. However, I am disgusted, and beyond my continuing membership, I will no longer be purchasing credits until an extensive change to the number of comms required for designs, or the 'average price' is instituted.
If this issue is significant enough to the playerbase, they will stop purchasing credits until it is repaired. Let your economics speak for your economics. Colloquially, let the playerbase put their money where their mouth is.
Edit: To clear up a question I recieved, I'm continuing my membership because to cancel it would hurt me more than my protest, as I'd have to wait months further for it to build back up. If no longer buying supplementary credits doesn't work, I'll contemplate dropping that as well.
Unknown2010-08-26 19:00:17
... who are you?
Unknown2010-08-26 19:01:50
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Aug 26 2010, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... who are you?
Nobody important, beyond someone who regularly buys credits and is upset with the changes.
Unknown2010-08-26 19:12:35
Tbh demigod changes are great now with the adjusted costs. I'm still holding out for more of an essence refund / further ascendant powers review though.
As far as comms go, I agree with Lendren / Talan's POV. Maybe Glom could sell comms to the public at double/triple/quadruple the cost, but honestly, given it's Talan/Rag who are the main comm-gatherers, I can understand why she'd rather not.
As far as comms go, I agree with Lendren / Talan's POV. Maybe Glom could sell comms to the public at double/triple/quadruple the cost, but honestly, given it's Talan/Rag who are the main comm-gatherers, I can understand why she'd rather not.
Unknown2010-08-26 19:15:24
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Aug 26 2010, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tbh demigod changes are great now with the adjusted costs. I'm still holding out for more of an essence refund / further ascendant powers review though.
As far as comms go, I agree with Lendren / Talan's POV. Maybe Glom could sell comms to the public at double/triple/quadruple the cost, but honestly, given it's Talan/Rag who are the main comm-gatherers, I can understand why she'd rather not.
As far as comms go, I agree with Lendren / Talan's POV. Maybe Glom could sell comms to the public at double/triple/quadruple the cost, but honestly, given it's Talan/Rag who are the main comm-gatherers, I can understand why she'd rather not.
It was the way they were implemented that I had a problem with. The fix was decent. If the same sort of fix occurs with comms, I'll have no problem buying again.
I'm just beginning to get a bad taste in my mouth from the 'slam then mollify' methodology we've been seeing lately.
Unknown2010-08-26 19:18:53
Yes, all new changes have historically started out rough, but it's not exactly shocking or surprising though.
Right, how about them comms. Woo coal.
Right, how about them comms. Woo coal.
Nariah2010-08-26 20:22:34
QUOTE (Nihmriel @ Aug 26 2010, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Spending six hours a day running sheep and spinnerets is a monumental waste of life, so I'm still looking at being far short of the quantity that I need.
Since the change my two favourite hobbies in-game, shopkeeping and designing, have suddenly become virtually impossible and pointless respectively. Unsurprisingly I find myself spending progressively less time in game. This leaves me feeling increasingly unhappy and other large shopkeepers are experiencing much the same, so I'll reiterate my hope that the next round of 'tweaks' will address more than just the rate of tithes to cities.
Since the change my two favourite hobbies in-game, shopkeeping and designing, have suddenly become virtually impossible and pointless respectively. Unsurprisingly I find myself spending progressively less time in game. This leaves me feeling increasingly unhappy and other large shopkeepers are experiencing much the same, so I'll reiterate my hope that the next round of 'tweaks' will address more than just the rate of tithes to cities.
Seconded. Ever since the double comms for everything were implemented I have close to entirely given up on shopkeeping and designing. Not only did it drastically lower the market for non-utility items due to new prices(scarves, gloves etc), it made stocking these a waste. Further, Arts-crafted pipes and vials were not brought to par so the frail artisan pipes and sorcelglass trade totally collapsed. Lastly, a lot of designs were rendered unusable by the comm doubling.
Whilst it is true that we often try to get away with as cheap a design as possible, the matter at hand here is different. A vial that once took one infernobeetles to make now takes two - it makes no sense whatsoever and is an absolute pain in the ass for me to obtain. Infernobeetles are annoying enough to get as it is. The same for mammoths for ivory, and their number is severely more limited. Or sorcelglass that required one gem to make now requires two, throwing the price entirely off anyone's reasonable range. Viynain is having similar trouble with his teas, I haven't seen any at his shop for ages now and it was one of the things he was most excited about. Each tea now requires two tea leaves which are hard enough for him to get as it is.
We could just re-design everything but why should we? Not only is that ridiculously pricy to re-design half of your designs, it takes up slots you could use for new designs, and it spams your cartel with confusing doubles. Not to mention, in a month there might be a change to lower the comms again, or raise them again.
Shopkeeping right now feels very exhausting and fruitless.
And since this was fairly off-tangent, my on topic comment is that I'm very happy we finally have price policies for commodity shops but the other mentioned problems still persist.
Unknown2010-08-26 20:29:08
I'm still for the argument that with the new lowered tithes and higher prices the wanted effect is achievable with the old design requirements. The new ones just make the problem ridiculous.
Nariah2010-08-26 20:41:13
Xenthos2010-08-26 21:22:47
Honestly, what's the problem with commodities being plentiful?
I'd think you would want to encourage player creativity and participation in the design process; it's not like the commodities were all being sold for 1 gold even with their general availability because organizations were saving up for a rainy day (and it's a darned good thing they did, too!)
The prices were all relatively stable, relatively good, and in the case of master weapons / armour, achievable (though difficult).
Now, this is no longer the case. This is stifling creativity and enjoyment across the board, because it's been a massive hammer on both production and drastic rise in requirements.
So, again, what's the problem with it the way it was in terms of production / use? If the only one is that Trade needed to 'have a purpose,' you could have easily said "Trade governments will generate 1p every time someone does a commodity quest" and you'd have been all set.
Xenthos has generated 1 power by doing a commodity quest in Estelbar.
x10
Then all three types would have some method of power generation, each different and unique in its own way (religious passively giving direct power, conquest building up a pool that supplies guards and discretionaries, and trade building it up through the day-to-day work).
Edit: Fixing the comm system in general is a good idea, and I don't mind fixing it so that it's easier to work with down the road (it's a great idea). You just should have ensured that production was not lessened in any way (even if the old production amount was 'bugged'), and also should have reduced commodity cost requirements back down now that a lot of the supply has been used up.
I'd think you would want to encourage player creativity and participation in the design process; it's not like the commodities were all being sold for 1 gold even with their general availability because organizations were saving up for a rainy day (and it's a darned good thing they did, too!)
The prices were all relatively stable, relatively good, and in the case of master weapons / armour, achievable (though difficult).
Now, this is no longer the case. This is stifling creativity and enjoyment across the board, because it's been a massive hammer on both production and drastic rise in requirements.
So, again, what's the problem with it the way it was in terms of production / use? If the only one is that Trade needed to 'have a purpose,' you could have easily said "Trade governments will generate 1p every time someone does a commodity quest" and you'd have been all set.
Xenthos has generated 1 power by doing a commodity quest in Estelbar.
x10
Then all three types would have some method of power generation, each different and unique in its own way (religious passively giving direct power, conquest building up a pool that supplies guards and discretionaries, and trade building it up through the day-to-day work).
Edit: Fixing the comm system in general is a good idea, and I don't mind fixing it so that it's easier to work with down the road (it's a great idea). You just should have ensured that production was not lessened in any way (even if the old production amount was 'bugged'), and also should have reduced commodity cost requirements back down now that a lot of the supply has been used up.
