Correct.

I assume that would be because the defenses are stored even when a character is offline, yes? But how about doing them per-character, but swipe them after x minutes of no connection, maybe with an immediate swipe if logging off the regular way?

I'm thinking it has more to do with the needed reserved memory for each character (if I've understood it correctly, every character is held in memory?), meaning that any additional data quickly adds up. If there are 10k characters (wild shot in the dark, probably more), moving those defenses to characters would require a lot more memory than keeping them in the connection, which I'd imagine are not all stored, and thus only average 100-200 at a time.

EDIT: Oh, and for the offline part: I'd imagine the code keeps track of all defenses there are, whether or not you have them. As such, your idea would likely merely switch a bunch of ones to zeroes, and thus preserve no space.

Never had a problem with second group vanishing, but the first didn't use to vanish. Any idea why it didn't before, if how it is now is normal?

And if I'm getting what Eventru's saying and that having some per-link is to save on memory, would it be feasible to rearrange the list some, so that at the least we wouldn't be losing costly defenses, like enchants or power defs?

From Svorai's list of things not lost, I see Nightsight, Thirdeye, and Insomnia. Nobody would really care about having to put those back up, don't cost EQ and one is legacy code that doesn't actually do anything. Swapping those for Acquisitio, Aethersight, and Waterwalk (which are all available to everybody) would, personally, make me very happy. Assuming that's something feasible, of course.

Saving by link means we have x defenses on y people. y ranges from 90 to 180 people at any given time.

Saving by person means we have x defenses on z people. Z ranging in the thousands and (likely) tens of thousands. Many of them inactive.

Then we're talking about dozens of hours of hunting down the defenses and changing them in the code, someone having to write a fix (so when they're switched people with nightsight and thirdeye up suddenly don't have Crowform and Stagform).

So it's something possible, but overall a pretty big hassle to do? Oh well then.

I'll just keep it in mind for the next time Estarra's asking for projects and then cross my fingers. <__<

It'd probably be easier for them to make code so that the defences are moved when reconnecting. Not that I'm saying it'd be easy, but probably easier.

Previous to this non-change change, when I got disconnected and reconnected really quickly, sometimes I would lose defenses and sometimes I wouldn't, but it was all or nothing. If the herbs in my hand fell, then I lost all defenses; and if they didn't, then I lost none.

Nowadays there are still two possibilities. I could come back to having lost some defenses, or all of them. I never come back without losing something. So on the face of it, it feels like things got worse. Probably even more for people who routinely would disconnect to switch clients and get away without losing anything. (I rarely did that, and when I did, I still lost sometimes.)

But what's missing from this analysis is, I have no idea if the odds of the two outcomes are the same as they used to be. For all I know, this isn't really worse, it just feels worse because I always come back having lost something.

It also feels weird because there's no rhyme or reason to what we lose when we have a partial loss. Earlier today I had a brief disconnect and when I came back, I had lost a bunch of Acrobatics and Highmagic defenses, but not Music or Discernment ones. I'd lost my yoyo's spin and the effect of my throne, but not enchantments. This is the list I actually captured:

LOST:
- Adroitness
- Balancing
- Captivate
- Elasticity
- Falling
- Hyperventilate
- Limber
- Throne
- Malkuth
- Netzach

NOT LOST:
- BardicPresence
- Deathsense
- Lipread
- Nightsight
- ThirdEye
- Yoyo

I've removed from these lists anything where I can't be sure if they were lost because of something I'd done (like illusions).

I have no doubt that something changed. I have no idea what, though.

The main point is that something changed awhile ago that affected how the defences are stored, or something along those lines. If the admin don't know, it must have been some side thing - big changes to the way the code works would require a lot of effort compared to if we were able to find out what changed.

The complaints started around the time we changed servers. I still suspect it has to do with how quickly the servers track/respond, but who knows...

Sior is looking into it, and if anyone will track it down, he will!

The thing I am really concerned about is that power defenses are lost first. For some reason, wasting power is something I am really really averse to doing.

Thanks Sior and Eventru. Having it being acknowledged makes me feel a whole lot better about it.

I can't remember when it all started to happen, but I think you're right with the timing. It's curious that those defenses haven't been touched (so Acquisitio was always flagged as an 'active connection' defense, I'm guessing), but that they started acting like this in recent months. Concerning this active connection business... it seems to me that reconnects are being treated as a new active connection, rather than as a carry-on of the last connection, as seemed to be the case in the past.

Another clue would be that a few months ago... I was able to reconnect while in the arena and most of the time I would stay in the arena (if not, it was treated like a full disconnect, I lost all defenses/herbs/quest items etc). The point is that it was possible to remain in the arena following a reconnect -- I did it a lot. But now, if I reconnect at all while in the arena, I am forced out. It's not possible to reconnect and stay in the arena anymore. That coincided with the arena power bug, the defenses/effects dropping on reconnect without fail, and probably the move to the new server too.

Seems to be connected. Oh ho.

Anyway, I'm happy Sior is looking into it. Thanks guys.


Agreed. If I could keep crowform, bonded spirits, demesne effects, penumbra, the throne effects, acquisitio and waterwalk... I think I would be a very happy player!

Hmmm. I was never able to reconnect into the arena. I remember d/cing a couple of times vs. Gelthrae, but my client hadn't disconnected, so he had to refrain from beating on me once he saw me stop curing. I only got the "booted from arena" text back when I re/ced.

It was definitely possible. I just hunted down some logs from May where I reconnected while sparring in the Shadowvale.

It was always a 'chance' thing. As Lendren mentioned earlier, sometimes when you reconnect you do lose everything... as though you fully disconnected, but most of the time it was fine. Now there's no possibility of it.

Thanks for explaining, that makes sense.

However! You said some are saved by character, while others are not. And from this topic it seems that costly defenses like those that cost power or are enchants drop. Maybe it would be nice to review the list and shuffle some about? (Though enchants should probably stay as there are, or that trade gets less income.)

Trade is not the matter at hand here. Ideally defs wouldn't drop at all when you're d/ced for a minuscule amount of time. Making them last overnight or longer is probably a place the admin don't want to go, which is perfectly fine, but it's just a really obnoxious flaw when you lose this stuff for minor internet choking issues, so ADDING to that list is a bad move.

Eventru, right there, in the post you are quoting, was responding to me asking that question and saying that changing the lists around would be a big hassle.

Mmm, interpreted that differently, but boils down to the same. So that is answered then.