Heh, This is what I tried to explain about three pages ago. Inquisition is useless in solo fighting if you actually intend to kill them.

Once upon a time, Celestines had the worst damage output in the entire IRE multiverse. Radiance doesn't suck, though, and radiance has been made to work more flexibly. It might even be worth trying heretic + quickened radiance, just for the sake of testing all your corner cases, since a healer can pin that behind sensitivity.

An interesting idea. aurawarp. heretic. quicken. costs a total of 8 power but i suppose it would work for a few seconds. only foreseeable problem is that the quicken would only last for 2-3 attacks. and the heretic will fall off pretty soon after. I don't think it's going to be enough against anyone level 80+

I'll do some testing next time I'm on to see how much a radiance does with sensitivity and heretic

yes, it is.......if you're a healer. inqui is all about dealing a deathblow you have /already set up/, like soulless or meteor.

Hallowed Presence =/= hallowed ground for boosting damage with fervor. I tested that to see whether I should be using it for boosting meteor damage.

I could never really get a handle on whether the holy light abilities were intended for regular use in combat or if they're just an RP instrument. The holy light costs are prohibitive, a consistant source of light is hard to find and globes aren't returned after leaving the arena.

Edit because that sounded a bit negative: There are a couple of dandy uses for one or two of the holy light abilities - but the problems I mentioned mean that you won't be able to rely on these as a consistant part of your offense.

While Healing is pretty much all defensive, if you're looking at using it offensively, then some options you might try, though they may not be entirely useful, I'm not exactly a top fighter, but some ideas to maybe get the creativity flowing. Also I have never been a guardian before so these may not even be possible.

Aurawarp, Bedevil, using a beast with hypnoticpatterns, spit crotamine, angel vapors/anorexia.

Putting them to sleep with amnesia cloud timed with a neurosis aura and sleep enchantment and then judge.

Inquisition, crotamine spit, angel anorexia.

You can make them kneel, so using beast trample can help you pin them down for a while.

Anyways, hope this helps a bit or gives you other ideas to try.

now -that's- something I've never thought of.

Not sure what you mean by kill and survive, but I'll assume you mean that you want any class/tertiary combination to be able to get an enemy with good curing killed if only they are able to attack them long enough (possibly even while being somewhat hindered) and that you want every class/tertiary combination to have a chance to at least fight back against any other offense without getting instantly shut down.

Now, some classes can't (don't even have a theoretical way to) kill a healer who knows what they're doing, no matter how good an offense they put up. Yet, you're not saying 'nerf healing, people have a right to kill me', you say 'give me better offense'. As for the better offense of wicca healers, I already made the claim (without any backup of evidence, though) that they don't fulfill postulation a) , either. Not sure about Researchers, but they're ripe for a little nerf, anyway, I think.


About the suggestions, Celestines have no way of stripping metawake aside from inqui, so sleep/judge won't really work.
Inquisition doesn't last long enough for crotamine, I think, but I don't know the exact numbers for either, so maybe there's a chance.

Thanks for those. Some very neat ideas.

Beastmastery is the one skill I've never put any lessons in better get to work

Inqui's on a fairly wide random timer, and you'd almost certainly have to push the crotamine a little before inqui, maybe together with shieldstun. If you can get it on before inqui, that gives you time to get beast balance back, push amnesia and sleep, then try to finish with kneel or shieldstun if your inqui comes up short because of RNG rage.

It's a neat idea (and major props to Asmodea, because I wouldn't have thought of it either), it isn't stat-dependent, but it looks hard.

You could ostensibly make your alias beast spit;inquisition, and then put sleep as your next command. Since inqui strips insomnia and kafe, they would have a hard time waking up to cure it once inqui wears off. The only thing that would screw you is passive affliction curing.

Poison shrugging, too, don't forget.

If the RNG gods deem you worthy of a seven second inquisition, this fails. I would still try to work something in that gives you a couple seconds of crotamine time before inqui, so you don't potentially have an impossibly long time to hinder after it ends.

You'd have to wait with the sleep until after the Inquisition is over, to avoid the constant minimal damage, as it's there to prevent Sleep from sticking during an inquisition. And as soon as they're out, unless they've got anorexia, amnesia or somesuch, they can just insomnia and eat kafe to get edgy again. Remind me, does curing others in the same room take eq? If not, you could combine curing insomnia with Sleep and hope you do it before they can eat the kafe. Elsewise, you might need a beast with sleepcloud.

Yeah, curing anyone but yourself has a pretty lengthy balance cost (there is a report out to reduce it #437, THIS would be why they might not accept it though)

All you have to do is give them a Neurosis aura. This will cure anorexia, but all you have to do is cut the aura after you get them truly asleep. And even if you're not going for a sleep lock it's additional mana for putting up insomnia. I thought you'd mentioned this earlier as part of your mana kill scenario, but I could be wrong.

The point is that it's a passive insomnia stripping, so even if that thought process factors into the envoy decision, cutting an aura only takes 1.4 seconds as an unbuffed human regardless of who the aura is on. Curing neurosis is ~3.5 on someone else. For comparison, radiating the aura is ~2.4 and shifting is ~1 which means giving them the aura in the first place takes about as long as curing it once, but the only EQ time you care about is cutting the aura afterward if you're trying to stick anorexia while they're asleep.


Edit: BTW, can Celestines give Aeon without Tarot? If so, you can give them Broken Nose/Powersink with Bedevil, both of which help with mana draining. Cali, do you have the list of cure->afflictions that Bedevil gives? I have a partial list but not everything yet.

celestines cannot give aeon without tarot or occasionaly astrology. That is why report 431 was put out (which isn't really likely to succeed, but i keep hoping!)

Broken nose? i didn't know bedevil caused that...

no I don't have a clue at all of what afflictions bedevil causes.

I'd be pretty sure the RNG gods hate you if you get a 7 second inqui - it still seems to be in the range of 8 to 12 seconds

This is a good topic for some discussion about how inquisition works.

I have no idea what the depression is. Most of that table is from Treant with a couple that I verified and the arnica that wasn't in the list. At some point I need to get together with a Hexen to get the last couple cures.

What i don't get though is. why is it that even though whenever you cure you get afflicted, why are they still able to eventualy cure everything off them. does bedevil have a hidden 'cooldown'?