We cityfavored someone for helping in the Battlechess a little while back under Article V and nobody looked at it twice.

Anyway, I sort of agree that CR1 and CR2 people should be Servants (or similar; perhaps a better label could be found for them) and upon reaching CR3 can enter another caste, at which point they've presumably earned at least a little respect for themselves and aren't just a lolalt.

So, the rank system would work like this...

Artists/Scientists (CR3-6)
Merchants (CR3-6)
Warriors (CR3-6)
Bureaucrats (CR3-6)
Servants (CR1-6)

...in that city rank serves as a marker of how dedicated you are in your service to Hallifax, granting you increased influence and seniority within your individual caste, while your caste determines your place in the overall hierarchy. A CR3 Bureaucrat could, from an RP perspective, 'request the assistance of' a CR6 servant, though with the recognition that such a senior servant might have special duties of his own that he has to take care of on behalf of Lord High Senior Researcher Artsy-Fartsy Windyshoes. That same bureaucrat could be bossed around by his own superiors in the bureaucratic caste (a CR5 or 6 bureaucrat, perhaps), who are in their turn subject to the desires of the members of even higher castes, ad infinitum.

This has another side-effect: preventing being elected Mayor from instaboosting you to the top of the Artsy-fartsy Sciencey caste. Instead, from an RP perspective, you're just boosted up to the top of the Bureaucratic caste as a private citizen, if you're not already there or higher. Thus, it's not possible to become Lord High Senior Researcher Artsy-Fartsy Windyshows by getting enough people to like you. Populism has got to be anti-Collectivist or something, right?

My loyalty lies solely with keeping the Hallifax in Hallifax, the Caste system and horribly authoritarian under and overtones.

Everything else is second priority, no matter what.

That is my personal opinion.



With that said, I find that I have yet to see any signs of the apocalypse. People keep complaining about the way Hallifax is currently set up, but the only really bad thing about it seems to be people complaining. We still hold villages, we still write books, do art, do stuff. Cultural center. It's practically been a slow slow progressive rise with no regressive dips, at least from my point of view.

In general, I am pretty positive about the way Hallifax currently is, it's just a game, but it's a game in which I love the way my faction works.

In this, I am somewhat conservative when it comes to the Caste system, I guess, at least my character is. Personally I would never want to live in a place like Hallifax, but this is a roleplaying game, and I think it does well in giving off the image of such a place, so far. It is probably not fun for everyone to take part in such an unfair and authoritarian system, but for those who find it fun, do not ruin it for them. Why not seek out one of the other factions in the game, anyhow?

Just a stream of thought, not very coherent I reckon.

(I sense an ulterior motive here...)


(...wait for it...)


(...getting warmer...)


(...nearly there...)


BAM!

Oh, Alianna. I appreciate the sentiment, especially coming from someone with your kind of background, but as much as we'd all love to have the entire game controlled by the alt-brigade of 3-5 people, it really defeats the purpose of it being a game, now doesn't it? If someone joins Hallifax, they're getting themselves into a very specific role. A lot of what you said makes no sense because of this. If someone joins Hallifax, they should expect to be 'worth less' until they demonstrate artistic or scientific merit. If the concept of time travel appeals to you, and you want to play a Researcher or Sentinel because of that, then you're going to have to bite the bullet and fill the rest of the role you've chosen by acting like you've a geode stuck up your arse (ie. not being a snuggler) and occasionally pretending to do Actual Science by writing or otherwise. For example, if I decide I like the idea of being an ezmode fighter that kicks people in the head and join the Shofangi because of it, I don't think you'd also allow me to be a viscanti who tries to spread Fain worship. If that's not the case and I'm mistaken, though, feel free to send me a PM and I'll start up a moondancer alt and see if I can get to CR6 as a Fainite or what have you. I expect it'd go down like a lead balloon, though. As for everything else: ultimately, if someone wants to play an alt, they'll have to put the time into developing their character and actually doing relevant things around-about the place in order to establish themselves. If you don't like that, then perhaps playing an alt isn't for you. Otherwise, bottom of the food chain you go.

This! This this this!

Thank you for being me but eloquent, Ileein!

Your caste system right now is incredibly boring. It is no different from normal city favours except you've added different labels to it. I don't know how you can be conservative, want to keep the current system, and think that Hallifax has something super awesome and unique. You're just different labels.

This thread is making me sad now. Can't we all be nice to each other?

...okay seriously I promise this is the last pointless post I make.

Nice? Go back to Hello Kitty Online >:c

Well, that is perhaps the difference between us. I find the caste system to be rather fine as it is now and I see quite a bit in Hallifax that I'd want to keep over the other cities, which I find quite boring personally.

I would not have it changed, personally. If you do not like it, well, that's your opinion I guess.

It seems it is going to be changed to some degree, anyways.

Or, read the culture articles. You've got to nominate yourself if you want that CF for designing stuff. It's spelled out in the culture articles. If your character is not the kind of person that would do that, nudge a friend into nominating you, but please don't complain about not getting recognition if you stay silent.

(P.S. I'm not saying the work isn't noticed. I'm pretty sure most people know who the prolific designers are. You've just got to speak up if you want the CF for it. It's the law.)

THE LAAAAWWWW!?!?!?!

*ahem* Right.

To everyone that isn't making a of themselves through totally in-the-dark clueless trolling due to not having played the game in the past four months or so, see the following:

Ileein offered a modified, concise version of it here, similar to what I said but overall more improved. It has room for everyone to reach CR6, as the Cityrank-based influence mechanics don't seem to have any viable way of being separated from one another. People are still, socially, in their appropriate castes and are granted their varying degrees of 'worth', but they can still earn levels of respect that doesn't make them worthless. It works well all-around, honestly.

The caste system right now discourages combatants, and whatever Inky claims I rarely see him fighting in defense of Hallifax or indeed see him on par with any of the more notorious fighters.

The reason we hold a Rockholm is also a combination of how many villages go up at a mining revolt (5 by the way) and the fact that we got lucky with the hours. If the stewartsville revolt was any indication we certainly need more fighters in revolts to assist in keeping Mag (and Inagin) of our back.

Also alliances don't last forever, nor will Glomdoring be forever on top, Hallifax needs to try and learn to fend for itself combat wise and kicking combatants in the teeth is not the way to go.

Ileein has the right idea I think, but he still needs to work out the treshold for raising in caste because that is what Hallifax is all about (in fact that is the idea behind an indentured contract), raising in caste. For example assume Anisu reached servant level CR6, how many books / lectures/ would she have to do before she is considered a scholar.

I think we should supplement it with a system where at some point the Librarian/minister of culture/board member says ok this person has performed many actions I suggest him or her to be raised to the x caste. A vote insues and then a small ceremony in the city.

Mainly though because I love ceremonies

I have a feeling this thread turned out to be precisely not what Arel was hoping for. But it has produced a funny contrast: people saying "why join Hallifax if you don't want to be Hallifaxian" one post, and then shooting down a point system as being too bureaucratic and paperwork-heavy the next post. It's all too easy!

Ileein's system + whoever's suggestion of the Hallifax-only clan where people can be ranked in their castes + Article V further abuse = profit!

Personally, I make a distinction between 'bureaucracy that your character does' and 'bureaucracy that you do.' I enjoy the former. The former can be quite fun. The latter is very rarely fun. I do all I can to eliminate it with extreme prejudice.

There are actually people who enjoy keeping track of lists and lists of stuff like that. The biggest issue I forsee is if the person tracking it goes inactive and messages send go lost.

The biggest difference for me is that, thanks to client-side scripting, most of the bureaucracy can be automated.

Not that it's all that important but for the sake of the argument: a a great game-side script is a response to complaints about messages getting lost and issues with keeping track of things. Again, may I point everyone to the Ninjakari tablet, a creation of Fain's that I quite adore.

For those unaware, it allows certain people in positions within the Guild to add information to the tablet pertaining to Guild advancement which is done there in the form of earning marks for achievements (points). For example, having enchanted robes would be worth 20 marks so the tester goes to the tablet and says 'Add 20 marks to Sir Fancypants for having fabulous robes' and the tablet adds it to Sir Fancypants' score. I do not remember all the details but I'm fairly sure it shows recent additions too. I believe it would not be a problem to have it list who added the marks and what for (might already do that actually). And then you check it, see who ought to have a higher rank and favour them.

City application of such a system means you could let CR6s add to it, or maybe just Ministers and Council, whatever you want, and then someone goes over it regularly and checks if everyone has the rank they should have according to the tablet. Or let everyone write in it too, regardless of rank, not as adding points but in the form of filing an application for gaining merit. Then aspiring artist Fluffybrush walks up to it and goes 'I submitted 5 designs to Couldweavers which were approved' and whoever is in charge of Cloudweavers or whatever is called upon by the bureaucrat to confirm this. Points added!

invoke fain tellusmore

He's written a ridiculously awesome script for the Order too but keeps tearing his hair out at its bugginess. The Order one, however, keeps track of some things automatically. For example, influencing x amount of maggots in his realm nets you a 'X influenced maggots' note in the log, performing a monthly ritual at the temple altar likewise. Also lets Order members individually add blessings or curses to raise or lower a person's rank. It does not, however, change rank within the Order on its own and like I said, is annoyingly buggy. Adding a note about that just to brag about Fain's awesomeness and to give people ideas on what's possible. Though no one's to say if a city, any city, would be allowed to have something like that.

Edit: Ninjas have recently started keeping track of their marks in a scroll though, for some reason... Maybe some Ninja could explain what happened there. Last I know tablet was working fine.