Aslaran

Shadowlord Faeling

So faeling is -1 str, +2 dex, -1 con, -2 int. The sipping bonus however means while they may have under 10% less con/int they sip for 30% more, so they are more than compensated. Faeling do not suffer any form of weakness while aslaran also suffer a weakness to fire. While in pure stats they seem comparable faelings advantages and lack of weakness seem to entirely offset this.

As to saying you cannot compare a spec to a non specced race... Didnt someone earlier ask why Viscanti should be better than a normal race? I cannot do not know, someone told me, I honestly don't recall. Most races can easily compare to another race, we are not trying to make all spec races heads above normal races, else, why is Viscanti so comparable to Igasho?

EDIT: Ixion you bastard, you said you were too busy to post XD

See, from this end, I see:
+1 con, +1 str, and +2 intelligence for Aslaran, in exchange for 2 dex points. Given that both dexterity levels are already at the high end, especially with Demigod, there difference there is less. 2 stat points that matter more (con and strength)... and the intelligence is handy both for surge, as well as for avoiding mana kills.

Further, the difference between 18 and 19 strength is not insignificant; that's still well within the range of noticeable improvements. You're right that strength above a certain level means nothing, but 18->19 is not that certain level.

Faeling get level 3 balance. Aslaran get level 2 balance and level 1 equilibrium, which helps for things that use EQ as well as enemy skills that force off-EQ. Again, not negligible.

Aslaran have level 2 fire penalty, sure. They also have level 1 cold resistance. Further, penalties are already on the list to be reduced, so this isn't even much of a point if that's still on the table.

So, up until this point, I'd say that Aslaran are actually better. More bonuses, one weakness. You can downplay the other stats all you want and try to exaggerate the importance of dex all you want, but I don't buy it.

This leaves the Faeling bonus as being the sip bonus, herb bonus, and regen in your own terrain. Sip bonus is also not 30%; this was nerfed in the last racial overhaul, so that Viscanti and Dracnari wouldn't be penalized as much. It went from 20% for Faelings to 15% (level 2 bonus at 10% per level to level 3 bonus at 5% per). Perhaps your issue is that you keep saying it's 10% per level when you've been told otherwise.

Thus, the sip bonus pretty much just counters the con difference (by a slight margin), leaving the 1 str and 2 int points to compare to the 2 dex. Herb bonus is a plus, I'll agree! And you're always going on about how useless the regen is...

Hey now, let's not distort the truth:

I, as a human, sip for approximately 15% of my max health. Sidd, a faeling, sips for about 18.5% of his max health. I'm not sure where 30% more sip came from, because if it was that high, god damn, then I shouldn't have switched away!

So again, faeling and aslaran are still comparable. You guys keep hammering on that fire weakness as a Big Deal ™, now tell me where it really comes into play aside from fighting Gaudiguch and elemental runes.

Edit: Oh hey, Xenthos made a better post, but my data supports it anyway. Woo.

I'd sacrifice 3 con for 3 dex in a blink of an eye, or any combination of int/con for dex. Squall doesn't hinge on dex, beheads do.

That would be where we got the 10% per level from

15% vs 18.5%?

Thats 3.5% more of max which is more than a 20% increase per sip.

So, you say 20%, she says 10%, and you magically turn that into 30%. Just wanted to get that straight by quoting the whole thing instead of a snippet.

That said, it should be more around 15% (don't forget that sipping has a flat amount as part of the formula, plus some random factor as I recall), so you can't go off of a base percentage like that. It's going to skew your percentages up for that reason.

what point does STR stop mattering? I know after 18 you get diminishing returns, but hell, 19's better for warriors than 18

extra point of con is a big deal because aslarans have ability to get whatever health buffs etc are needed, just as faelings do, so they still end up with more health.

lvl3 bal vs lvl2 bal +lvl1 eq, pretty comparable

yes, we win the dex game but aslaran aren't hurting there

wait wait, you can get more health with surge due to +2int? oh my that seems ok considering 33% of your mana is converted into health with surge, so adding +2INT is like 2/3 of a CON point, well that's not half bad.

lvl 2 fire weakness, well that cosmicfire is going to hurt, elemental rune on nerfed warrior damage will be a bit more, Pyro's will be a pain, few other things, nothing really significant besides maybe having to fight Pyro's.

so we sip more, but you get more health to begin with, that seems comparable too

all in all, Doesn't seem to out of whack, considering SL is a specced race.

Edit; Damn that Xenthos, anyway, we pretty much said the same thing

10% per level, so faleing is 3 times 10 or 30%. penalty is 2 * 10% or 20%. I did say 10% per level

What?

An 3.5% increase in sipping compared to a normal race is nowhere near 30%

You're losing me a bit here.

+Vote for scrapping Visc Brood Lords. Orclach warrior spec makes more sense anyway

No you did not. I just did a ctrl-f search on the two posts I quoted. The word 'level' is not in them at all. They're talking totals.

Also, it is not 10% per level. Again. I can say it again if you'd like.

It is not 10% per level.

My bad, I did mean 15% of my total health, and 18.5% of Sidd's total health, if it'll make it clear.

I asked what 1 level of sipping was and was told 10%, why would I make note of that after asking? You are trying to use quotes, but you are looking in the wrong place. From them on I used 10% times the level when giving numbers

Shuyin. 15%/3.5%. That is the 20% better sip, it should be 15%ish it sounds, which is skewed by base I would presume.

-1.66 con vs 15% more sipping, sounds about equal. Eq does not matter for warriors so much, that is why he does not care and just notes the better balance speed. Weakness vs no weakness is pretty straight forward. I think he likes dex because it single handedly can make warriors tame, higher dex dodges more, thats the goal I think. I am not a warrior, I like dex, but I am not an Aslaran and do not use them, my observations are based on how an urguard would see it.

I do agree that orclach could be better if they specced though to an extent, specially undead.

Regardless of all the debate:
+1 strength for aslaran seems a sound idea, or +1 dex, whatever they prefer

EDIT: Edited to not sound so mean

I asked where you were getting 10% from. You quoted a snippet of a post. I clicked the little arrow in your quote to go directly to the post you quoted to look at the context. I then re-quoted it and the post that it was responding to in their entirety.

These posts do not discuss 'levels' at all. In fact, your post clearly is discussing totals; there's no way that anyone could reasonably think that there is a 20% bonus per level!

Decent dex is good; but from my standpoint, Aslaran are high dexterity already. Shadowlords are higher, but when it's already high, well... that's great for both races. It's really an issue when you have low dex (like 12 base).

10% / 3 isnt a whole percentage. It is therefore assumed its 10% a level which sounded about right based on the formula for a normal sip (which is already a range come to think of it).

As I said, either way. There should not be an issue giving aslaran a +1 wherever they feel it is more proper.

EDIT: I would prefer +1 con on aslaran, but that isn't my area! I wholly leave it to them and I have no idea if they wanted dex or str anymore.

-beep-

Nope they are sayin that is old bonus, misinformation. It should be 15% now

Reading this thread has given me a -2 intelligence malus.

I demand this be rectified.

Sure man, you can get +3 con, str, and dex so long as you drop your level 2 useless forum regen, just to be fair.

Nowai. Troll is the spec race for forums and level 2 regen is comparable to other spec races.