Sidd2010-10-22 11:59:15
disregard, it's early and I was seeing things
Esano2010-10-22 12:01:06
disregard as Sidd was seeing things.
Unknown2010-10-22 14:25:19
QUOTE (Malarious @ Oct 22 2010, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
About human.....
Just reduce base str/int/con to 11 and I think you will find them be less appealing
Just reduce base str/int/con to 11 and I think you will find them be less appealing
QUOTE (Furien @ Oct 22 2010, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dropping humans down to 11 in everything at the start just feels like a very heavy-handed change to me.
Why not just alter the evolutions so that the classes are all different, and while we're at it why not make it so that, for balance's sake, on their evolutionary path a human actually loses something? I can't say this is any better of a solution, but I don't see why human mages evolve to have more than 12 strength.
Why not just alter the evolutions so that the classes are all different, and while we're at it why not make it so that, for balance's sake, on their evolutionary path a human actually loses something? I can't say this is any better of a solution, but I don't see why human mages evolve to have more than 12 strength.
Okay, these both are reasonable too. I admit my suggestion is on the heavy-handed side, but I'm not sure I totally follow Furien's idea. Would that mean at certain level thresholds, you'll gain nothing and lose something? "I hit level 90 and all that happened is I lost a STR point" doesn't sound any more fun to encounter than the immediate drop of stats, with the side effect that everyone who bashes up to human henceforth will get a sense of disappoint from that, whereas cutting the baseline is going to be felt more by people who play humans now. Not later.
Going with Furien's other suggestion would be part of the bone thrown back; make more distinction between the guardian/mage/bard group, and let them each have their separate stat spread. Maybe even for guardian and wiccan, too, as strength could vary a little between those two - wiccans would prefer to kill a toad with one stomp, after all. I'm just not sure of the point where STR ceases to matter for that effect (though maybe illuminati would prefer to have the same level of STR, too? Lots of factors to consider).
QUOTE (Malarious @ Oct 22 2010, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
PS. Though in hindsight lowering resists to lvl 1 and adjusting stats might be decent if you add the debate damage buff.
Hmm, are you really that sure? If we go with what I suggested, then Irontongue/Master will have a base CHA of 15, and Brood would have a base of 13 (which is on the high end for all specced warriors). In addition to that, the village influence bonus was untouched, which I would consider immensely generous, if not too much influence oomph already. Why would they need improved debate damage on top of all that?
QUOTE (Furien @ Oct 22 2010, 03:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What the christ are you smoking? :|
No clue on this one.
Krackenor2010-10-22 14:31:50
I know the conversation has moved on, but I would still like an answer to my illdrain question, since I am still in the dark as to why Sidd and Sojiro want it cut in half.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Nydekion2010-10-22 16:05:46
If I were to wager a guess, it'd be because illidrain produces ego numbers that are far higher than what charisma, even faeling-esque charisma, would do by itself, add to that high dexterity, good constitution, and decent intelligence. It would make it work too well with telekinetics (and monks but that's unrelated to illidrain).
Casilu2010-10-23 02:03:59
QUOTE (Nydekion @ Oct 22 2010, 09:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
(and monks but that's unrelated to illidrain).
Not if they're psymet.
Gregori2010-10-23 02:09:53
Illuminati Dracnari could easily lose 2 points in charisma instead of strength. Other than Croak which has very little curve on the damage scale per point of charisma, Charisma is just a dump stat. I mean sure the influencers will cry, but given how easy influencing is to begin with I am not going to lose sleep over needing to take 2 -3 more hits to influence something (especially when we have at least 1 mutation that helps influence and could be buffed up slightly if needed)
Malarious2010-10-23 05:41:43
QUOTE (Furien @ Oct 22 2010, 04:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What the christ are you smoking? :|
I Added one level to each damage type for alcohol tolerance obviously, hence the (every other damage type) note.
Viscanti charisma I was planning as hitting maybe 14 for caster, 15 for bard (maybe 1 lower in each I dunno), 12 for warrior, but the sipping penalty is being the weight here. Basically I expect lower cha AND lower sipping (so you sip for less and have less) but have a damage bonus to make it so if you hit hard and fast you might win before it becomes a long run thing.
Again, would like a Viscanti opinion.
Krackenor2010-10-23 13:27:23
QUOTE (Nydekion @ Oct 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I were to wager a guess, it'd be because illidrain produces ego numbers that are far higher than what charisma, even faeling-esque charisma, would do by itself, add to that high dexterity, good constitution, and decent intelligence. It would make it work too well with telekinetics (and monks but that's unrelated to illidrain).
Works too well? If so, that knowledge doesn't seem to have caught on to the general public, judging by RWHO. I rarely see more than 2 or 3 Illithoid players (besides me) logged on at any given moment, even during peak hours.
Lendren2010-10-23 14:15:55
If I could changeling unlimited times, I would love to gather some statistics on what RWHO really tells us, because even when I'm elfen I rarely see more than three or four, myself. We're so spread out over so many races as well as orgs, and so many of the most active people are gem-cloaked. In fact, I see more people on RWHO when I'm loboshigaru than elfen, but I know there are many more elfen than loboshigaru around at those times; just seems that those who play lobos are less likely to be cloaked.
(Admittedly, due to having a day job and stuff, I tend to log off while we're still in the upswing towards peak hours. I wonder if the proportions change significantly, though, or just all increase about evenly.)
(Admittedly, due to having a day job and stuff, I tend to log off while we're still in the upswing towards peak hours. I wonder if the proportions change significantly, though, or just all increase about evenly.)
Vadi2010-10-23 17:47:13
Admins in Achaea a while back posted a very detailed distribution for players logged in within 30 or so last days and their races + their guilds. Perhaps this could be done here as well.
Prav2010-10-24 01:25:57
I'd like to see Mugwump get +1-2 INT and get rid of or alter the weaknesses moreso than +CON.
Mugwump should be a fragile aggressive caster race.
Mugwump should be a fragile aggressive caster race.
Unknown2010-10-24 04:03:21
QUOTE (Prav @ Oct 23 2010, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd like to see Mugwump get +1-2 INT and get rid of or alter the weaknesses moreso than +CON.
Mugwump should be a fragile aggressive caster race.
Mugwump should be a fragile aggressive caster race.
The extra INT might not really give the effect you're looking for. INT has diminishing returns that start out at around 14-15 iirc, which it was adjusted to in the last big racial rebalance. This, along with the balance/eq cuts, are what changed imperial merian from a glass cannon to fryer fodder. I'd suggest finding willing targets to hit with and without the knowledge karma blessing with a high INT race to see if you think it's really worth the bother.
Xeonis2010-10-24 18:07:10
QUOTE (Prav @ Oct 24 2010, 02:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd like to see Mugwump get +1-2 INT and get rid of or alter the weaknesses moreso than +CON.
Mugwump should be a fragile aggressive caster race.
Mugwump should be a fragile aggressive caster race.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I'm pretty sure Mugwumps should be aggressive. The fire weakness should be lowered though. But, if your a Pyromancer and a Mugwump.. the protections somewhat phase each other out, with Fireproof its alot harder to hurt Mugwumps with Fire. These are just my opinions and speculations though, so take them with a grain of salt.
Casilu2010-10-24 19:59:37
Well, since I was finally thinking about it and decided to bring it up, could Storm Trill get looked at to get min-max'd a bit more? I know Trill are supposed to be more of an influencing race, but when they get the warrior spec they only get base human charisma.
Xiel2010-10-24 22:51:39
Just tossing up more INT to mugwumps won't help some, though if the racial weaknesses/resistances were looked at, maybe, but no word from any of this so far.
Sior2010-10-24 23:17:22
QUOTE (Vadi @ Oct 23 2010, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Admins in Achaea a while back posted a very detailed distribution for players logged in within 30 or so last days and their races + their guilds. Perhaps this could be done here as well.
We have something similar. I wrote something similar and included "points" for amount of activity. Will post the stats soon.
Malarious2010-10-25 04:56:13
QUOTE (Sior the Anomaly @ Oct 24 2010, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We have something similar. I wrote something similar and included "points" for amount of activity. Will post the stats soon.
Can we get a list of what you are all reviewing for possible changes? Wondering if you are going with the last thing for Viscanti, taurian, etc, or basing on earlier ones. All that fun stuff, or if you will ask us for a final feedback on the matter or something.
Sior2010-10-25 15:53:46
QUOTE (Malarious @ Oct 25 2010, 12:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can we get a list of what you are all reviewing for possible changes? Wondering if you are going with the last thing for Viscanti, taurian, etc, or basing on earlier ones. All that fun stuff, or if you will ask us for a final feedback on the matter or something.
Not quite there yet. You'll hear it when we have it.
Sior2010-10-28 04:35:31
The following is a list of stats of people who have at least vote weight five.
Points are the added up vote weights per person in the row.
Points are the added up vote weights per person in the row.
CODE
                         Â
RACEÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â %TOTÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Points
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
human          21%                1925
dwarf          1%                  132
elfen          6%                  437
dracnari        5%                  508
faeling        16%                1742
immortal        3%                  258
furrikin        3%                  267
illithoid      3%                  333
krokani        0%                  61
aslaran        7%                  700
loboshigaru    5%                  416
mugwump        0%                    0
maggot          0%                    0
merian          2%                  240
orclach        0%                  131
igasho          0%                  31
tae'dae        0%                  89
taurian        0%                    0
trill          9%                  759
viscanti        5%                  347
lucidian        3%                  260
kephera        0%                  37
Total Personae: 314
RACEÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â %TOTÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Points
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
human          21%                1925
dwarf          1%                  132
elfen          6%                  437
dracnari        5%                  508
faeling        16%                1742
immortal        3%                  258
furrikin        3%                  267
illithoid      3%                  333
krokani        0%                  61
aslaran        7%                  700
loboshigaru    5%                  416
mugwump        0%                    0
maggot          0%                    0
merian          2%                  240
orclach        0%                  131
igasho          0%                  31
tae'dae        0%                  89
taurian        0%                    0
trill          9%                  759
viscanti        5%                  347
lucidian        3%                  260
kephera        0%                  37
Total Personae: 314
