The kephera poison weakness is pretty significant. If resistance adjusts accordingly to any decrease of the weakness thereby, then they're fine, I think.

Taurian are not picked because, quite frankly, humans are better for all the roles a taurian would fit into. The same could be said for most other "warrior" based races. Human warriors could probably stand to lose a point of STR and gain a different point elsewhere... or just going without.

Faeling is skewed because of domoths, the same way elfen were extra-skewed when Serenwilde had that race loaded with minor domoth blessings. The number of elfen players dropped significantly when elfen lost the blessings - nerfing faelings based off of their performance when they consistently still have war/knowledge/life/chaos feels premature to me, as are all the examples given thereby (i.e., Narsrim). But by all means, make your cases otherwise.

Elfen are fine, mostly. WTB Elfen Lord/Lady for all orgs.

Weakness reduction for Tae'dae! They're always going to be bad due to the eq/balanace penalties, so let them be better at the one thing they are good for, please.

If you want to make merian more unique while keeping their current setup similar, I'd suggest an addition of cold and poison resistance, or the alternative of a minor sip bonus. May apply any of these to mugwump too, depending on how you want to break it down. Poison resistance might seem more appropriate for mugwumps, actually.

No ideas for Igasho or Orclach, those are hard. The solution there might just be the same as taurians - humans need to be brought down instead.

Dwarf could probably use +2 dexterity because 10 base dexterity as a warrior really negates the axelord specialization bonus since they can't stick any warrior wounds. Plus at 12 base dex, they still have lower dex than an evolved human (the baseline) so it fits the role well still.

A third spec for dracnari would be a way to go too. It's odd that all other spec races get a boost in their main bashing/offense stat but dracnari illuminati get punished for being specced with a -2 strength hit.

I realise I addressed this issue on the transmology special report via crush/claw, but if you are doing races then this might be a way to go instead.

the biggest problem with this is that stats have different values nowaday. Diminishing returns have been added to strength for warriors, to dexerity for monk damage, and intelligence to caster damage.

Having over 20+ str, Dex, Int for your damage source used to mean a lot. Now, not so much at all. Left unaffected have been Charisma for added ego as well as constitution for added health.

The point being that I believe adding one more point str, dex, or int in general is less than adding a point of constitution or charisma in general.

Mugwump used to be used because they had level 3 equilibrium recovery. Those bonuses have since been cut in half. So nowaday, this level 3 recovery becomes a pre nerf level 1.5 recovery. In return they were given a reduced fire penalty from level 3 to level 2. These resistances or penalties however were not cut in half. I don't know about the rest of you, but level 3 equilibrium/balance recovery isn't anything special nowaday. It's still appreciative and probably it's for the better. The more important point is that it's not a gamebreaker and it's not even a huge advantage. That being said, I personally don't find anything less than a level 3 recovery to be even noticable at all.

And while people are going to complain of charisma bonuses, those same people who have the great charisma (casters) also take the a much bigger hit when it comes to bashing and high health. Warriors and monks hit almost twice as fast as caster and several times more often for the increased chances for critical hits. Not only that, they're health is much higher, double for warriors. Bashing and influencing are equally available but influencing doesn't have critical hits. If you want to get better at debates, I'd to be able to use a bash attack every 2.5 seconds or less instead of every 4 seconds.

Personally, I find the strength-based bashing attack for illuminati more of an advantage than disadvantage since by the nature of guardian guilds, their kill methods aren't particularly damage-based, but it's true that it's odd for illuminated dracnari to favor int over str with how the skills are designed. That said, having gauntlets be int-based to be in line with the other guardian bashing attacks probably is the better way to go as far as that is concerned.

I can't help thinking adamantine lucidians are probably the weakest specced warrior race around.



While the magic resist is quite nice, the Lv2 fire penalty is fair, if not more than fair recompense. Psychic damage resist never utilised. Lv1 resistances minor.

Compared to the others and discounting size (though including int & char since both still important):


Maybe a boost to dex/con? I realise I'll be the only person to benefit from any change!

Okay so I tried to copy my prompt from flash but it looks ugly.

As a level 79 faeling with 11 con I barely break 3400 health. (3421 to be exact. 11 con is life domoth blessing and this is with Celest garden blessing thingy) The sip bonus is the only thing that keeps me alive most of the time... stop trying to nerf it. (Even with dodging, stancing, and parrying (yay awesome faeling bard dex) I can still be damaged killed)

Ok, time to cover a few races since people want to bring up comparison.

Viscanti Bard


Dracnari


On a pure stat level dracnari is superior, and the exact same sipping penalties. This is a specialization for a race?

Viscanti stats in general are horrible. I would ask if there were plans for a monk spec, but generally you have to take a penalty somewhere... and with 13 strength, 10 dex, 14 con, 12 int, and 10 charisma there isnt much wiggle room. You want 10 or less int? lower than 10 con? You want to be a lower stat illithoid?

Consider removing the sipping penalties from viscanti or at least nerfing the effect so their already low stats dont create a cascading effect. If there are plans to nerf resistances than Viscanti would need a fairly large buff to be effective.

Other concerns...

Orclach


The main problem with them that I can see is the abyssmal int and cha. People dont want to be insta bait in this day and age really. So many better options. Orclach will see a benefit to weakness nerfing for sure, but will they be used at that point?

Taurian I would mainly wonder about giving them a racial charge skill partially for use, partially for flavour. Other thoughts welcome

1 - Tae'dae pay for their resists with a lv3 slowed bal/eq, while kephera essentially get it for free (splendours :/). The magic/fire weaknesses pretty much mean they get eaten by any magic-based archetype, and manakills are simple with a base 9 int. You can't even shield or web to slow people since they'll typically be able to void/nullify before you regain eq/bal from the shield, so you're left sitting there trying to tank it. My suggestion would be to at least boost the elixir healing back to level 3 (as it used to be), and maybe throw in faster elixirs since levels of advantages were decreased in effectiveness a while back.

2 - Bearhug could do something useful. There were some suggestions for racial skills in another thread though.

3 - Supposed to be tanky, but against physical archetypes their low dex (lowest ingame?) hinders stance/dodge/(maybe parry too?). Bump up a point? Don't believe resistance helps against wounding. The only archetype tae'dae slot into is warrior with the STR, but with such abyssmal DEX afflictions are much harder to get, especially in combination with the slowed bal/eq.

4 - Fix *without* turning tae'dae into a mildly modded igasho. In fact, Igasho are probably better than tae'dae in most ways at the moment (offensive/tankiness-wise) other than for RP or influence.

This has been brought up before but I think Lucidians/Trill and Dracnari should have their regen work in their environment. Lucidian/Trill in Clouds (level 2) and Dracnari in Burning (level 2). Every other specced race gets a regen in their home environment with Elfen in Forest (level 1), Merian in Flood (level 2), Viscanti in Taint (level 3), and Shadowfaeling in Wyrd (level 2).

Viscanti also get a better set of racial resistances, and have no elemental weaknesses to compare it to. Irontongue is also probably the worst viscanti spec - the others have pretty decent stat spreads, and only really feel lacking with dexterity, if anything.

I don't see any way you can argue for the sip penalty to be lessened without adding more weaknesses. Certainly, the sip penalty is tough outside of taint environments (it really isn't so bad in it), but this race is just too tough without something else giving. If you want better stats and a reduced sip penalty, I think you'd also need to remove that magic resistance and make it a level 1 weakness.

I think diminishing returns are boring. Isn't it more fun to have more variance in races? Right now there's no sense of tradeoff, since nothing outside of 2-3 races (faeling, human, and whatever race your org is tied to) has anything unique or attractive enough to pull you away from those obvious choices. People should have the option to make sacrifices, and something unique should be part of the decision as to what race you play.

For the purposes of influencing, however, charisma should still operate on the principle of diminishing returns. Revolts should be purely about coordination, with as few outside factors as possible. In the way that you wouldn't want one side in a chess game to have an inherent advantage, revolts should be all about numbers, and organization.

In regards to charisma, since it keeps coming up - one solution might be to tier down the amount of cha needed to keep up with the denizen response rate. This would go a long way in making influence more accessible for a wider number of races without just upping everyone's cha level to be the same. Currently, I think 12 CHA or so is considered to be the minimum amount to keep up with denizens - if you drop that to around 10, then anyone who can get a karmic beauty blessing and some other minor buff (netzach, populus, moonchilde, penumbra) can likely get enough CHA to be clear. How much weight extra CHA bears above that number can then be up for debate.

Also, if most of the other races with extra resistances balanced with lower stats and racial weaknesses get buffed up without getting equal maluses in stride, I think it would be more reasonable to treat viscanti within that line.

I figure it should be pointed out that Irontongue Viscanti have a "built-in" +3 Charisma from Vileblood because, you know, they're the Bard Viscanti and have Necroscream. This can apply to other Viscanti in a way, too, but they clearly have to rely on a Bard rather than just carrying it around with them as the Bard would. (Largely inefficient)

Yeah. The same becomes true for the taint regen too - it is very nice, but can only readily be applied in a universal sense if the viscanti is a geomancer.

Chanting has little to do with winning a revolt or debate really. When debating, a good hit will knock you out, from full ego- chanter or not.

And lastly- Celest's best influencers cameo-switch to faeling.

chanting does not have very little to do with winning a debate. It's like double sipping if not better. It means you last longer and have more chances than your opponent to get that good hit and knock them out.

I think this would be nice for revolts. Debating should have a pfifth effect for both parties involved in the debate when said debate is taking place in a sanctuaried room. It would drop if sanctuary drops and so forth.

Debating pfifth could be abused in a variety of ways. No thanks. Most people want to break a debate to run and influence an open mob. Take that into consideration.

And I still don't feel that chanting brings things on par for merian in debates against a faeling. Like I said, Celest influences in faeling form. Trill, faeling, humans. I'd go faeling if I had a cameo. But again to yours and Talan's point: How does dragging someone around to stay by your side and chant make things 'different but equal enough' ?

Coming from a city with chanters and having spent many years in a forest without chanters and having the "if only we had chanters" mindset, I can safely say Malicia is right. Chanters don't do a lick of good when you just get 1 shotted after a couple bad/good hits in a debate. It doesn't matter if you can 'double sip' when the next hit is going to wipe you out anyways.

Edit:: Let's also not forget that via alliances those orgs/races that do pack a hefty punch in debates have access to chanters as well. Assuming we are going to argue that chanters make a huge difference.