Rofl at buffing spec races that aren't merian. The Illu Dracnari issue can be envoyed and has already been addressed in here, though.

Chanters help but they certainly aren't omg-I-need-them, they provide an edge if both sides are relatively equal and are scoring the same amounts of hits/misses.

I still want resistances to evaluated as much as weaknesses have been.

Okay, now you're just being silly. Are you talking from the perspective of only a merian lord/lady? If there's one place merians don't have to complain, it is in influencing.

Putting that aside, it would be nice to get some explanation over where exactly the trouble crops up in revolts over high CHA. Anyone who is saying people can influence denizens with significantly fewer influence attacks due to high CHA is wrong - CHA plays a very small role in that. What CHA will help tremendously with is:

1.) Allowing you to continue influencing by just changing mindsets occasionally while someone debates you, since you can tank it more efficiently (and for longer) if you get unlucky.

2.) Winning debates.

So instead of saying "influence speed needs to be nerfed" when there is nothing visibly wrong with it, I think you'll have a lot more progress if you probe things that are actual, potential issues.

Well, like I said, debate fifth would only work in a sanctuaried room and would fade if dropped. We could also add a syntax to drop a sanctuary that you have put up to help with such instances. Obviously, if the other person does not drop it, then they are also sacrificing their own option to run and influence said open denizen.

No, you're being silly. Read. The main issue here is that merian aren't a very playable race right now and I've already thrown up suggestions. I did get sidetracked countering points where people are bringing up how Celest performs in revolts as if it negates the merian argument. Debating is a major part of a revolt. Is a merian as tanky as a faeling in the situations you listed- of course not. And yes, I'm talking about the merian lady/lord perspective. Isn't that what this thread is about?

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not on the nerf-faeling train. I could care less. Nor do I want merians to become a carbon copy of some other race. Most of the changes I suggested are non/CHA related. The penalties are the worst thing about the race and the squishness of imperial merian.

I did. No where does your post imply anything about how merians perform in situations other than debates. Perhaps it is not what you meant to mean, but that is precisely how it reads.

But since that's been explained more thoroughly now, no worries.

Celest's performance in revolts is more because of Celest's ability to outlast the opposition. Throughout history I've seen quite a lot of revolts where the opposition just got tired and gave up, even though they had a sizable lead. One that had been slowly shrinking, but it may or may not have been shrinking quickly enough to actually let them win.

I agree with this for the reasons stated.




Totally correct. Chanting only gives an edge when both debaters are within the same range of effectiveness. In revolts a dominant debater (high charisma, trans influence, etc.) will shatter debater after debater until they reach someone who is more prepared/has better stats. Chanting and sipping doesn't make a debater competitive.


I would like to see Merians 'improved' so that they are a viable alternative for Human Guardians. Also mugwumps simply need more advantages (+2 Con? reduction of weaknesses?) to be viable.

Edit: Would Mugwumps be more attractive to players if they really lost one level of weakness (changed to level 1 Fire weakness, level 2 electricity weakness) or would a +2 (or +3) to Con be required?

I think slightly nerfing humans would be a good start to making other races viable as well. I've always seen humans as a "meh" race, because mechanics aside, there's nothing interesting about them. Unfortunately, their evolution stats make them the best choice for almost everything.

How can we really nerf humans, though? Making their evolutions start later so as to detract from overall stat points?

Evolution is not the only reason people take the choice of being human. That experience bonus is pretty damn good incentive in todays easy mode to demigod.

Stats aside if I had a cameo again I would be taking the human route just for essence farming, and had I had a cameo pre demi I would have been switching to human to gain demigod faster, because let's face it - stats mean nothing on an aethership.

Level 2 magic weakness or level 3 psychic weakness.
I've read a lot about magic defenses being really easy to get, and I think there are only a few times when it is an issue, like meteor.
And a psychic weakness means... don't hunt adorath?

You don't get one-shotted in debates because you are debating people with high cha. You get one-shotted because the debate has gone on for quite a while and you get unlucky in getting the worst type of debate against a certain mindset or vice versa and a lot of RNG hate (I believe there is a significant RNG factor to how much ego each attack takes. I may be wrong though, haven't tested it in a while).

"gone on for quite a while" can be as quick as 3 hits with RNG being against you.

Racial stat packs (unlike Aetolia that has just stat packs). Unique for each race. Discuss.

Coding resources.

This I like. Possibly drop the Level 2 asphyxiation resistance for Level 2 poison resistance for mugwump.

So far as the braintrust can tell, asphyxiation damage includes: cloudcoil, oothai, tk choke, aquamancer point staff (25%),
nightkiss (50%). That is not a lot.

This would be awesome. I never expect it to happen, but it would be awesome.

The issue would be how to handle spec races and how to differentiate them when you've got so damn many of the things (even just assuming two packs for each race, you double the number you're working with).

I don't like universal stat packs because it removes the uniqueness of each race.

That is an interesting idea Sahmiam. I like it in theory, but practically it just gives the players more opportunities to bitch about things because you've expanded the number of elements you need to balance.

Also what Furian said.

Or illithoid/kephera, or cave-fishers.

Not fond of stat packs. sorry.
I think races being extra good at certain things (elves get bonuses for being MD, igasho are better with one handed swords in blademastery, et cetera) is good enough better. That said, I think more races should have those.

And cave-fishers have physic damage? o_O