Oh, I know "equalized bashing" isn't just a snap of the fingers. Honestly, right here it's more a red herring argument, since classes are a much bigger impact on bashing than races. Right now, it's more important to ensure that all races can feasibly do both. Yes, this means that Illithoids (while taking a penalty elsewhere) and Orclachs may need another point of charisma, and merians and kins another point of con. A lobo SHOULD be better at bashing than a furrikin, but he should not be as much better as the comparison between me and Gleip suggests. And that is a class problem, much more than a race problem.

DMP does seem to get overlooked on newer guilds and has to be refactored in later, I think.

Report 436, in the works.

I've been thinking, would it be reasonable to assign an extra DEX point to races with native weapon bonuses if they are using their native weapons? This would be a nice touch for igasho/orclach/dwarf, but isn't really necessary for krokani, and if it applied to kephera/illithoid and monk weapons too... eh.

Not quite true. As a an artied monk, I do beat most warriors through speed and crits, but there are also warriors (that are artied as well) that I cannot compete with. Using hyperactive regularly would burn 10 power, and as a whole, monks can't tank as much damage from large groups (increases travel time to find groups you can kill).

Maybe on the unartied level with average weapons, average DMP, etc, monks might be better, but it's not the case when you throw in the artifacts and what not.

Monk damage baseline is extremely low. If you're hunting mobs in which a monk's WSC won't kill it (or even annihilating), I'd say the warrior is faster because its Crits will result in a one-hit kill.



That's in the September envoy reports.

I'm about the most artied out a warrior can get, and I couldn't compete with you in the last Great Hunt, both of us plowing through tunnel trash as fast as we could.

Anyone have any comments on my tae'dae entanglement/balance ideas? Were any other tae'dae ideas put forth?

Raeri had some complaints, but not lots of specific fixes for Tae'dae. I still think it'd be okay to lessen some of the susceptibilities they have, since I doubt their speed is going to improve anytime soon, and I think a few other people have asked for an innate tipheret-like skill for tae as a bonus. Someone else wanted their sip brought back to its original power too, but that might be asking for too much sum-total.

To put things in perspective, Sahmiam and I tend to be pretty close to corpse counts on extended group hunts.

So, and since people have thoroughly confused me with their proposals which have scattered all over the place, I’ve decided to go ahead and do a quick summary to see if we can get back on track:



Yes, people ask for a lot of things. I personally wouldn't mind just seeing the flavour skills going in and tweaking the races which really need it (mugwumps and merians especially). This talk about reviewing resistances/weaknesses would be good too, probably.

As a faeling harbinger with illusoryself I could romp through astral and link to regain power without blinking an eye. I could even bash the undervault and it was no problem. At 3.1k health it would push you to 9.3 health (6.2k illusion and 3.1k normal) I hadnt even hit level 70 yet and I could bash the undervault as a faeling.

Your summary doesn't include my ideas, Xiel I don't see how copying a low rank magic skill like summer/tipheret and making it use balance could be expected to help at all, when tae'dae have the same balance malus as equilibrium malus (therefore it would be just as slow as using the magic skill), and most combatants have summer/tipheret to begin with.

Feel free to keep poking the thread, but the summary was for my own benefit. If you didn't want a balance-based Summer/Tipheret, then you've got me confused about what you want then. If you want a way to just break free of entanglements without any form of exchange to the user themselves, I don't think that has a chance of flying.

Oh, and if you're wanting to comment about those things up there, you'll want to dig up the original posts of the people I drew them from. I'm not the one who came up with those ideas, so if you want them fleshed out, poke them. I just got my e-nerd on and enjoyed summarizing.

I suggested a racial skill akin to contort for tae'dae (possibly with a cooldown) or a passive resist to things which steal balance.

It's because my higher crits will kill the creatures in one shot. If we were hunting something that would require a WSC + at least a 2nd form, you'd either match or out bash me.

It's also possible that our kill/time ratio was the same or that you were better than me, but I simply encountered more mobs/time.

Edit: To demonstrate what I mean.



One Annihilating would have been enough for a warrior to kill it.

Aslaran:
With fire weakness changing I think they will be solid though I am sure they would love more con

Dracnari:
-Guardian spec needs a review as its evolution actually weakens the Illuminati as opposed to making them better.
Yes

Dwarf:
-Proposed: +2 DEX
Umm... sure. Can use another monk race?

Elfen:
Good race, changes optional

Faeling:
Good race, changes optional

Furrikin:
-Proposed: +1 CON
Good plan.

Human:
-Differentiate Human evolution between the caster classes rather than lumping guardians/melders/bards Human statistics together.
Add in warrior/monk stats since I think those tend to be the same.

Igasho:
-Proposed: +2 DEX
Sure?

Illithoid:
-Proposed: -1 CON, +1 CHA
Kind of ew, then again I would rather the illdrain thing give temp racial charisma than ego, so you could still influence but that would mean it would have no "bad stat".

Kephera:
-Especially review positive resistances in favour of lessening their effects should negative weaknesses be likewise looked at/lessened.
If weaknesses dive the resistances need to lower on this race for sure. No comment on the splendours/kephera thing mentioned before.

Krokani:

Loboshigaru:

Lucidian:
-Proposed to warrior-spec: +1 DEX
-Introduce/exchange regeneration to cloudy terrain.
Sure

Merian:
-Proposed addition to current: +1 CHA, +1 EQ bonus, +1 Elixir bonus, -1 Fire/Elec Weakness
Ask for a couple things do we? If weakness is being reduced in effect then merian MIGHT want a sipping bonus to help cope for "squish" factor but overall will not be a bad race.

Mugwump:
-Proposed: +1 CON, reduction of weaknesses.
Weaknesses are assumed to be decreased in effect I think. +1 con would not be a bad thing since their speed was the thing that made them usable.

Orclach:
-Proposed: +1 DEX
Still would like to see higher int/cha. I tried orclach, my mana and ego went from over 7K as a human to under 4K each. They are just asking for death in many cases and have weaknesses to boot.

Tae'dae:
-Proposed: Reduction of overall weaknesses. Retain speed maluses.
Add: Reduced balanced loss from escaping entanglements/impales.

Taurian:
I dont know what to put here... they seem decent, but they are outdone in most any use they may have by other races. I got it! Change rage to also increase dexterity and give adroitness (fully prepared to stampede!). Perhaps if you want something new and unusual you can give Inate "escapes mazes faster".

Trill:
-Racial language.
-Proposed: +1 CON
-Exchange regeneration from flying to cloudy terrain.
Sounds fine

Viscanti:
Still a pretty crappy race... low stats with sip penalties create spiralling values. Please consider like +2 dex (this brings a spellcaster to 10 dex and makes the warrior spec better than taurian/igasho types) and give a racial increase in debate damage dealt (but not taken or backfired) to try to make it feasible to have a 10 cha viscanti debate a 16+ cha faeling.

General:
-Review overall racial resistances/weakenesses much as overall racial speed was.
Yes
-Review the widespread fire weakness given during the previous revamp.
Not every race with fur should be weak to fire. Orclach being weak seems more of a "monster afraid of fire" thing to me, not sure if that should come out as a massive weakness though.
-Desired flavour/utility racial skills distributed and acquired as a race progresses in levels.
If its flavour, sure.

The bashing argument I will leave to others.

I am pretty sure that regardless of changes to the above you can expect I will be human most of the time, illithoid at specific times, and that is about it. Krokani would be asking for death in PvP, and loboshigaru while sound lack in areas compared to human and illithoid. The comments I make are for overall, I feel faeling have some wicked statting but the con is actually a decent modifier for that. Though, villages mean alot and low charisma in a spec race makes you much less likely to have high ego debaters (the whole viscanti vs faeling, I believe viscanti has the definitely lowest of them all).

Someone commented on a shofangi loboshigaru and being able to easily take cave fishers. That is because of how brokenly powerful harmonys regeneration is. As a human with just body mantras and mercy I was regenerating 20% of my max health every 10 seconds or so. You would not need be a loboshigaru to get to insanely high levels. As is standard though, no one who has harmony will nerf the obscene levels of regeneration, because that would cause people to have to sip as kephera monks with harmony. For those of you who remember steingrim and being able to tank several warriors for long periods... resilience, splendours, kephera, and regeneration 20% of his max (1600+) every 10 seconds.

Not to argue with you on the subject change, but if you could have Harmony changed so you can have more than one or two useful defenses at a time, I would start putting up the nerfs now.

Could you also add regeneration in fiery environments for Dracnari?

Updated. Humans monks already differ from Human warriors in terms of statistics, so I didn't bother to add that in.


Edit: To be truthful, it's just starting to look like a grab bag, so I didn't bother to add in other things for races that I personally don't deem to be in the 'never/hardly ever' used racial category. All of these wants for +1 CON here and +2 DEX there are great and all, but, I feel, they just try to push all the races to be closer to a leveled statistical playing field, and I don't know how I personally feel about that yet besides thinking it'll just push races into a boring monotone. Furthermore, divorcing races from statistics to cater to both roleplayers and metagamers alike would be dandy, but it won't happen, sadly.

Why does everyone keep asking for more stats but refuse to reduce their own bonuses to compensate.