I didn't say it's terrible. Just that it adds absolutely nothing to our offense.

Full is amazing. No question there.

Drawdown is great to have.

Shine gives me that little extra health if the moon cycle is the right one, otherwise the damage increase isn't very significant.

Waning isn't that useable in a 1v1, as I said, since they have to be so screwed up that they can't cure the aeon right away.

Dark is just not worth the power cost, and the defenses it strips are not terribly useful.

Moonbeam is rawrsome, except that technically everyone in the commune can use it without having moon? vOv

It's really more or less just a defensive skillset and not amazingly useful in group fights.

I think the difference people were getting at was that Moon has nice buff/defensive/utility skills, when they want something easier to faceroll along the lines of Judgement/Inquisition/Squall/Choke/etc. In an immediate context, Moon isn't going to do for anyone offensively even if they drop Dark.

People stick wane all the time, I don't know what you're talking about

squall/choke don't faceroll people, they help, but if you deal with them properly it's not a big deal,

' oh man I got squalled, what should I do?' - run right back into the room?

'oh no, I'm choked' - move and come back or turn it on them, choke is about as effective to stick as wane with the added negative that it can be reversed pretty easily 1v1

How many of them are warriors? I know wiccans can do it because they can sleep lock you if they time it right, along with other little tricks in hexes and healing.

Sacraments is primarily healing/support. It has only the inqui line. And then judgement. Most sacramental warriors don't bother with the inqui line if they want to build wounds. In groups, lrn2web someone who is insta-keeling you.

Man, I want to see these logs of people getting facerolled by squall.

You also have to realize that that those offensive skillsets also tend to lack awesome defense/buffs/utility, so I think this is mostly a matter of 'grass is greener' syndrome. What I wouldn't give for shadowdance laserbeam for instance.

Lilian, Kolm, Eamon have all used wane, pinlegwane train is pretty effective, if you land a slitlock + wane that's pretty effective too.

It mostly seems that you want gimmeskills that don't take a lot of work

btw, I'm totally on board for a night/moon instakill, as I said, give everyone a timed insta, or take them all away

Gee, I don't remember saying that people got facerolled by squall, I could have sworn it was implied the other way around.

Choke can be worked around by bringing larger groups (or zerging depending your level of jadedness) and situationally Squall is a 0p whirlwind/scissorkick/what have you that keeps a Druid fairly safe, though it's no medicinebag.

Nowadays aeon-locks that aren't choke aren't as reliable unless you have (to make it easiest, for example:) a TK to throatlock, or someone else with nice anorexia.

I had a log somewhere of Nienla keeping like 5 people off of her for a long while with embedded rad and spamming Squall. It's pretty great for 1vsMany, I think.

That's what happens in a lot of the Seren vs Glom fights I've, Viynain/Xenthos charges alone into our group, spams squalls, all the people without mapping getting utterly confused and the group gets completely broken up.

Even if you claim you didn't say that, the post sure came off that way.

Zerging/bringing a larger group improves any skill, this doesn't make choke any more special or unique. You might as well say 'teaming makes you die faster'.

Squall is similar to whirlwind/scissorkick, except that you don't get to choose who to kick out, which is just as useful for group combat as kicking everyone one. Plus whirlwind/squall don't work in distort while scissorkick does. I don't think any of these are necessarily better or worse than the other, just different.

The biggest issue I see is that one is free while the other costs 5 power.

how about people spamming slitthroat/windpipe with wane too? that's pretty easy to pull off

and scissor is incredibly more useful than squall, I don't see how you can say otherwise, chance to move everyone allies/enemies alike or just to move your enemies out and keep your allies in? That's a no brainer.

I think the skill working in distort and being able to precisely choose who you want to kick and who don't (for easier ganking) makes it worth 5 power.



Squall is excellent for 1vsMany, but did Nienla faceroll (I assume by faceroll you mean utterly kill/own/whatever) those 5? I doubt it. All she did was break up the group but killed no one. Plus if she could meld, it also means you can beam, which really helps keep groups together.

I think by this time, everyone has access to a map. The ingame map is excellent, for instance. There's little excuse for getting confused when you get thrown around. Plus you can scent and chase anyway.

SlitThroat/CrushWindpipe? Obligatory lrn2parry/stance, I guess.

That doesn't mean that squall shouldn't have a smaller power cost attached to it, either. 1 or 2 power would be fine. It would just be to stop it from being spammed as much as it currently is.

lrn2avoidparry/stance then, it's not super hard just requires paying attention

@Sojiro They (pronoun) wish for something to faceroll (verb) like squall (subject)

@Sidd: Sure, slitlock works if they don't parry it or if your warrior has the strength/power lunge/assault/etc it reliably. TKs have still been easier for it in Hallifax, at least.

If Squall is blasting out your allies then I figure common sense dictates that you ... don't use it around your allies! When standing in the room and spamming Raise Cudgel is getting dangerous, you can just walk a room out and spam squall. Sweet, delicious and juicy spam. You will remain more or less untouchable unless others bring a sizable zerg in hopes of having a greater mass of people that actually manage to work with broken summon resistance, and the effective range of demesne activity still means you're contributing to the fight with treelife/easily-AoE-spammed treebane. Assuming you can withstand zaptrains or stafftrains, but that's mostly your only worry. Nobody will stay in long enough to have an offense.

The most obvious use for squall is when it's 1vsMany as he said. I somehow doubt that attaching a 1-2p cost will actually stop the spamming, especially if the crow user really wanted to live.

For large scale group fights, I think it's unfair to assume that everybody is going to be smart about everything, there's usually a bunch of smaller people who are going to get confused easily.

I guess that's just a problem Seren has been having for awhile, don't have many active combatants that actually know wtf they are doing.

And honestly, I think there's only a small handful of people in Seren who could actually manage to chase via scent.

It's at least slightly prohibitive and the spam would, eventually, taper off.