To be fair, I think low con is as much a problem as low cha or int. But that's why sip bonuses and influence buffs come in. Not to mention other skills to offset such weaknesses like surge, barrier, etc.

You know the biggest difference between low con vs. low other stats? Lower con directly means you die faster, usually.

Yet Rika apparently disagrees with you, having actually played and experienced it for a long period of time.

Go Faeling for a couple of months, it is quite definitely squishier even with the health bonus. You have to be much more careful in terms of hunting, making sure to stop attacking and leave the room (more so than you would otherwise); anything that does high burst damage is rough. This includes NPCs with high damage attacks as one of their set (such as Manifestations). Burst damage stings when you have a low starting pool, no matter what your sip bonus is like.

If you're one of the classes with a way to partially bypass this (warrior or mage), great. If you're not, though... well, most classes are not.

Nariah spoke on wanting more dex, they already had it in there so I just suggested +cha, people said no to charisma so I proposed the debating thing. People seem to prefer the +cha, I have no idea how much, to what specs, etc. My last log removing the +int from master viscanti was.....


Buffs:
o Sip malus: 2 -> 1
o Viscanti +2 base dex
o Irontongue Viscanti: +1 int, +1 cha, +1 dex (for a total of +3, +3, +1).

Nerfs:
o Magic resistance: 2 -> 1
o Blunt resistance: 2 -> 1
o Cutting resistance: 2 -> 1

Add in people talking about Viscanti. This is the ideas I have run with and tried to adjust as people give input. I have yet to put in any original ideas in the above, even the +debating boost was brought to me IG. I would gladly leave it to Nariah to handle as I am not a Viscanti, and for the most part no one argues the above, only the question of charisma/int/+debate has brought any concern or question.

You just need to whore surge, get the urlach throne blessing, and a level 3 life rune. Everything gets blurry when you have all that, though.

The bickering here is pretty pointless. How about instead of continuing down this path, let's keep in mind we still have a lot of other races to address than what is taking centre focus here. We might also want to recognise that we need to be careful with humans, too. I don't think nerfing them is all that bad, but if we do that and start stacking up extra buffs on every other race (ie, level 2 eq for furrikin, 2 con/dex more for urlach, etc), we need to realise this has the added effect of making human even weaker overall, as well as buffing these races.

If no one has a problem with that, then eh, okay. But I believe it's worth keeping in mind.

If anything, I think we should designate a "base" race to balance all other races around. It's so much easier when you have something in common to compare things to rather than comparing different races in different situations.

Wouldnt you break "base race" into groupings?

Speed races should all be comparable to BASE: Mugwump

Tank races should be comparable to BASE: Dwarf

Unbiased races should be comparable to BASE: Human

That sort of thing, based on what it is take it to an extreme and balance it out.

The theoretical base race is unevolved human. The problem arises when we have caster speed races, and melee speed races, and influence races, and tank races... It's hard to differentiate as many races as we have without some just being crap because their RP skews the stats. If it were easy and methodical, we wouldn't have these revamps every so often.

Now that people seem to be settling down a bit with some more reasonable thoughts, just poking this up from Catarin's views for merians:



I agree that merians, of all the org-specs, suffer the most, though a couple of notes: I don't mind that Merian warriors want more DEX, even though they already sit around the 14 range whereas the Lucidian and Dracnari warrior specs sit at the 12 range. Disagreement for Seasingers and CHA, though. I agree with the sentiments of giving the Merian caster specs more CON though since they're fair flimsy. The weakness lowering is needed all around, and I wouldn't mind extending the reduction from the fire one to the electric one as well, though I don't think they need the equilibrium bump to 2.

Edit: Well, a closer look at warrior specs makes me want to reconsider the DEX bump for Merian warriors actually, so I'll go ahead and tweak that bit. I still think that more attention needs to be paid to the Lucidian half of the Hallifaxian population though and somewhat the Dracnari as well.

You cannot compare all of the races to human, specced or not. Why? Because classes judge what stats are useful and why you take them. Humans are made to be a "neutral" par, so only things that are supposed to be generic can compare here. Speed has to meet the standards of untanky, tanking races need to be comparable to slowish, etc.

Why was Kephera "broken"? Because it was a tank race without the associated speed penalties, yes it had weaknesses but most were not heavily available so it was not of note to those most concerned.

Why is Faeling "broken" as a speed race? While the con is lower, that changes when you spec. The lack of weakness and the bonus sipping already makes them far more survivable than a standard tank race but to boot they have much higher dex and charisma too. They do not suffer for their perks against their eq based equivalent.

That is just the generalized version, Furrikin somewhat break this with their advantages versus mugwump (but the speed is assumed to mean alot). The specifics can be debated, but that kind of thing is why I think groupings make it easier.

Yes. Yes they can.

For example, I note you leave Illithoid out of this list of "broken" races when it is pretty darned strong in its own right.

Speaking of illithoid, didn't people want to hit that ego worm thing somehow? I know I was happy with a hit to its exorbitant amounts of CON or INT, but that's without the consideration for the ego thing.

Believe someone brought up reducing the ego per level max from Illdrain to like half current?

I was a faeling bard, faeling warriors, faeling monk, faeling mage, and now faeling researcher. It is definitely not as bad as some of you are making it out to be. With all of the bonuses we have in Lusternia, it is easily possible to get a faeling's normally low health in to the decently high range. Right now, as I look at my researcher, my health as a faeling is 5566. I do not have a life blessing, nor do I have any favours. Researchers also do not have any abilities that boost their con or health directly, so that amount of health is gained from the Life Domoth, Demigod, and Torc. If I had a True Favour, Life Blessing, and Con Platter, I could push that health to near 6.8k or so.

Faeling without +con boosts, truefavour, or a tosha/catas/throne blessing:

5856h, 7260m, 6600e, 10p, 21890en, 30434w elrxk<>-

I break 7K easily without a truefavour if I just throne and put up yellow.

3658h, 4803m, 4422e, 10p, 15025en, 22093w

Level 79 faeling... life and chaos domoth...

let me ask this. Why limit it to one org-specced race for the non-hallifaxian organizations (Hallifax as as of now, 2 different races that are specced to the guilds)?

You would have the race that is typically looked as the tankier race, and the other as the 'caster' race. Elfen and the extreme faeling (Goes for seren and glom). Merian, mugwump. (Celest, of course) Lucidian / Trill (Hallifax), Viscanti and Orclach (Mag), and Gaudi i don't know what would be a suppliment.

Wouldn't that help fix the races? Have two choices which are perfectly acceptable, both choices would fit in the org specific guilds, but one choice better than the other, RP'able.

That's a caster/warrior/bard spec in Magnagora, Glomdoring, and Serenwilde.

A caster / warrior spec in Gaudiguch.

Hallifax is already set because they've got their two.

Your fix adds 11 new racial balances to the game, so that's probably why not. That's a lot of work.

Why are you guys bothering balancing around Domoths and blessings that are open to all races?

I really hope they're not, but the faeling health discussion is making me rethink that.

They are. "Faelings have +2 base con from Life Domoth, so we're going to post our health totals with this and other benefits / buffs / defenses." Uh huh.

I mean, right now Talan (as a Shadowsinger) has 6428 health with:
1) +2 con from Life Domoth.
2) Tosha.
3) Life Karma blessing
4) Yellow
5) Constitution platter
6) Health blessing from influencing Godrealms
7) +10% H/M/E artifact.

So I really have to find Malarious' numbers suspect. We know right off the bat that he's not telling the truth about not having +con bonuses.

It really should not come as a surprise that getting +2 con helps counteract low constitution (and that it's not an assured bonus), but whatever.