Ah man, that takes me back. The highlight of my damage career was Shamarah's rant about bc flails post war challenge and gibbing Kaervas with gut strikes for wind with the same flails during the first domoth fights.

So yeah, let's nerf illdrain.

I'd be all for that if my bashing wouldn't become total ass because of it.

I don't remember this

Were we halfing it was the plan? 25 per level possible?

In reading the suggestions, it seems like many of you don't like the change to resists/vulns and balances and feel that the problems can be addressed with a limited per-race scope. Is this the case?

Yeah, I'm not sure the resistance change is necessary and I think you're just going to make it harder on yourself by having to rebalance all the many races that depend on their resistances for viability (Kephera, Dwarf, Orclach, etc etc). The balance/eq changes are good, though, keep those.

Been saying this since before this started, thank you. Way too much of this "review" has been less about shoring up the few races that needed it badly (merian/mugs) and perhaps looking at why nobody plays certain other races, and more about:

Lets see if we can plaster races the other side uses in to the ground and maybe even buff our own! But the other side, those frauds are just downplaying their advantages! Humm, we don't really have many resists (or insert issue of your choice), lets fry that mechanic! Yeah! It can only hurt the other side and won't negatively impact us much at all!

Which is another great reason to take a scapel to these issues, rather than a machete. Too much unjust collateral damage when this mob or that gets their way.

Also, I fail to see why any org shouldn't expect their specialized race to be decent and all around. I'm sure many viscanti players would be happy to trade a sip malus and some crappy resists for the faeling/elfen stat bag/no penalties.

There is a fine line between making something decent all around and making the other races just not worth playing. If the only reason I'd ever play a non-Elfen in Serenwilde is for RP, because they're all just worse, that's bad. Spec races already come tailored to your class (unless you're a monk) such that you can guild hop without reincarnating a lot, which is a bonus in itself. If they don't have some weaknesses relative to unspecced races, you're forcing an even larger "RP or do well" decision on people.

That said, I'm not going to try to judge which spec races are on which side of that line.

Going to bump this for more comments.

If you mean this^ then:

I'm largely ambivalent on the resists and vulnerabilities changes. It helps some races (merian, mugwump) but generally doesn't have much of an impact on the others. Only polarized races will really feel it, such as races that were either crippled by their weakness or sold on their resistance. The downgrade does suffice to buff lacking areas of some other races, such as Viscanti.

However, no matter where we go with it, a bunch of races are just worse off as a result: Tae'dae being the epitome of this. I don't think any blanket changes to universal mechanics will make Tae'dae any better. A limited per-race scope is necessary for them and potentially others, but at the same time we're working with broader-scope mechanics that people have been wanting to see addressed too - damage and stat scaling in particular.

I don't believe that folk are actually against the weakness/resistance changes because I know they've been pushed for ever since there's been talk of another racial overhaul. The change, as would be expected, would end up helping some races which suffer overly from weaknesses (mugwumps and merians), but have some effect on those who are resistance heavy (tae'daes and viscanti).

The only bit that could be confusing this really is the fact that attention has been drawn to two org-specs in particular (merians and viscanti) to even out their statistical outlay moreso, but the resistance and weakness tweaks were just used as a springboard to do it.

Making speed matter more than it had though is something that I, personally, think is a good compromise when compared to what it was before for casters and what it is now without the racial change.

I'm pretty neutral on the resists/vulnerabilities thing, but if it'll be left unchanged, then races with substantial resists should be more willing to let a few drop in exchange for other buffs. Maybe consider lowering weaknesses only, but I'm not sure what that will do overall entirely.

The speed thing, please keep.

I agree that a review of individual races is needed, and that's where you can really make your arguments for merians, kephera, illithoid, viscanti, and whatever else.

Oh right:

Like Alianna said: Can we do another damage review for int and str. Maybe even just strength. The last set of warrior changes made wounding good again, but it's killed damage. Hell, monks do more damage now.

Likewise, if it isn't already, consider capping dex just like str/int, if it heavily factors into getting monked.

Monk damage stems from DEX, I believe, so yes, kindly look into that please to bring it in line with the changes wrought to INT and STR to bring their damage in line.

Actually, a few of us(Malarious, myself, Haiden, Aliod, some others) have been testing it, and despite DEX raising the rate at wounds increase for monks(the dexterity just increasing the amount of wounding per hit and decreasing the randomness with it), STR affected the damage more than DEX did(11 str with 21 dex doing about 1100 at the damage cap, 19 str with 13 dex doing 1975 at the damage cap).

Sorry about derailing, by the way.

Sounds buggy if the STR is affecting damage more than DEX for monks. Mind, I'm no monk and quoting the HELP file there.

/derail

But, either way, if it does end up as a bug, needs the cap function that's been spread across the races regarding their damage output from high levels of STR and INT.

It -might- be, but the thing is, it's one of the few things that gives a check against faelings compared to other monk races. If it was then "fixed", well... roflbombs.

Isn't it so that dexterity affects the extra damage derived from wounds, while strength affects base damage before you calculate wounds?

Mugwump is finally looking like a viable race.

One thing that has always bothered me is that nearly every race has a fire weakness - yes this does make logical sense, but there are also a lot of fire monsters that can really lay down some heavy damage, even with biofeedback.

Not liking the ranking changes on it.

You don't like that the damage penalty was reduced 3% per level for those fire weaknesses?

Monk damage in PvP depends directly only on strength. It depends on dexterity insofar as dexterity increases a monk's wounding output which then has an impact on their damage.

PvE monk damage is dependant on dexterity only (of the character stats).


As for the planned changes, I'd prefer a race-by-race review to a general change to balance or resistance/weakness impact. It is more work for now, but will require less fine-tuning later.
The currently planned changes (resists/weaknesses down to 7% per level, speed boni/mali up to 7% each) would leave tae'dae and possibly Igasho in a worse state than mugwumps were ever in.
It would also unduly buff a few races that were already in discussion as being too strong when the race overhaul idea first came up earlier this year, namely faeling and aslaran.