Ileein2010-11-27 04:01:27
"All things being equal." Well, literally "with things equal," but who translates Latin literally?
Rika2010-11-27 04:10:48
ceteris isn't just things, it's specifically other things.
Gleip2010-11-27 12:48:28
If we're gonna make the bigger races more popular, they're gonna need more things unique to them, but also especially influence boons. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons for the prevalence of Faelings and Elfen are due to their Charisma. Influencing as a low charisma race isn't fun, so other races need something to make up especially for low charisma. Give Taurians Tackle, give Krokani intimidation and weakening influence boons, give Orclach a few stat boosts too if needed, but mainly, they need something similar to Furrikin Roll and Faeling Flight. A useful gimmick that's more than "yet another big brute".
Aerotan2010-11-27 14:38:16
How about STAND FIRM as a racial bonus for Igasho, and boosting the effectiveness for Igasho warriors who have it?
Krokani already have a bonus to beating illusions, would it be out of line to boost that to the ability to DETECT ILLUSIONS HERE| (possibly with the bonus in-tact)
Intimidation bonus seems alright for Orclach, though maybe adding an ability for them to intentionally stench themselves might be amusing, if a bit stereotypical.
Krokani already have a bonus to beating illusions, would it be out of line to boost that to the ability to DETECT ILLUSIONS HERE|
Intimidation bonus seems alright for Orclach, though maybe adding an ability for them to intentionally stench themselves might be amusing, if a bit stereotypical.
Veyrzhul2010-11-27 15:55:40
I personally think it's better to make the 'warrior races' just better at what they're supposed to be good at (retain their tankiness, make their higher strength count, don't make them yet slower). If they are that, noone will mind the weakness at influencing.
Sakr2010-11-27 16:22:25
how about stupidity:
Due to the simple mind of an (insert race here) debating loopholes (etc.) have a chance of failing because their minds cannot comprehend what the person is saying, and just disregard it?
edit: for bigger races, a natural fear could be given, or the ability to bellow to root the person in their spot in fear, making them need to writhe.
Due to the simple mind of an (insert race here) debating loopholes (etc.) have a chance of failing because their minds cannot comprehend what the person is saying, and just disregard it?
edit: for bigger races, a natural fear could be given, or the ability to bellow to root the person in their spot in fear, making them need to writhe.
Gleip2010-11-27 20:50:48
QUOTE (Aerotan @ Nov 27 2010, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How about STAND FIRM as a racial bonus for Igasho, and boosting the effectiveness for Igasho warriors who have it?
Krokani already have a bonus to beating illusions, would it be out of line to boost that to the ability to DETECT ILLUSIONS HERE| (possibly with the bonus in-tact)
Intimidation bonus seems alright for Orclach, though maybe adding an ability for them to intentionally stench themselves might be amusing, if a bit stereotypical.
Krokani already have a bonus to beating illusions, would it be out of line to boost that to the ability to DETECT ILLUSIONS HERE|
Intimidation bonus seems alright for Orclach, though maybe adding an ability for them to intentionally stench themselves might be amusing, if a bit stereotypical.
While orcs may be... unclean, I've not seen anything to suggest that Orclach are unclean. Considering that they're supposed to be very disciplined, I'd go so far to suggest that Orclach are a race that care a lot aboout cleanliness as a representation of discipline and order.
Unknown2010-11-28 00:41:45
How about a bonus for Orlachs when they are undead? That would sorta make them a Magnagoran spec of some sort.
Unknown2010-11-28 05:30:11
QUOTE (Caerulo @ Nov 28 2010, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How about a bonus for Orlachs when they are undead? That would sorta make them a Magnagoran spec of some sort.
Don't Orclach not respond well to Taint undeath? Something about Orclachmar being Soullessurrected and then being incompatible with anything excoroperditio-fueled.
Esano2010-11-28 05:36:01
The ones that mutated due to the taint became the weaker orcs, but the ones that died and rose as undead became stronger.
Malarious2010-11-28 06:12:28
QUOTE (Esano @ Nov 28 2010, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The ones that mutated due to the taint became the weaker orcs, but the ones that died and rose as undead became stronger.
Racial chance to resist fear, bonus intimidation and +stats if we keep fire weakness if the above is not acceptable? I also think the shrugged off debating thing would be fun though! (cannot fire when you debate someone else, so you can still self shatter).
I dunno anymore, Orclach is like a crappy monk race in training whose weakness can outright cripple it.
Taurian as a monk race? I could see that. Lowest stat is 10! (+dex would make them a slightly worse loboshigaru btw if everything else was the same I think).
Are we changing faelings? I heard Sior say he was looking at them before but have not heard on them since. They are far from in trouble but one of the most played, so clearly making them better might be a bad plan, domoths or not (they were used before domoths too!).
Unknown2010-11-28 08:49:09
If these knight races are going to be made slower, then a lot of these problems could be better addressed with a knight rework rather than a racial rework.
Most of the slow knight races weren't viable before they got put onto the chopping block in terms of speed. Given the speed dependent way that knights work currently, almost nothing that would be appropriate as a racial skill could make these races viable after they take a hit to their speed. This is because racial skills are usually small flavor things, or at most a single useful ability like flying that doesn't have a huge impact on combat.
I would suggest almost completely disconnecting dexterity from the knight equations in favor of making strength have a greater effect, which would buff the high strength races. This could be in conjunction with some other racial changes, like giving faelings and shadow faelings more strength.
Most of the slow knight races weren't viable before they got put onto the chopping block in terms of speed. Given the speed dependent way that knights work currently, almost nothing that would be appropriate as a racial skill could make these races viable after they take a hit to their speed. This is because racial skills are usually small flavor things, or at most a single useful ability like flying that doesn't have a huge impact on combat.
I would suggest almost completely disconnecting dexterity from the knight equations in favor of making strength have a greater effect, which would buff the high strength races. This could be in conjunction with some other racial changes, like giving faelings and shadow faelings more strength.
Veyrzhul2010-11-28 08:59:53
There aren't that many slow knight races, basically only igasho and tae'dae. However, according to the player numbers, even those who don't have a balance penalty don't get played alot. And while low dexterity does matter, I don't believe it's the main problem of either igasho or tae'dae. It does hamper dwarves and to a lesser extent taurians and brood viscanti, who would otherwise be more viable as good knight races.
Unknown2010-11-28 09:04:22
I don't mean to say that dexterity is the main problem, but that strength not mattering/doing enough for knights is the problem. The idea that dexterity would do less if strength does more seems like a natural and necessary part of making the high-strength races better, because otherwise races with both strength and dexterity, like humans, would wreck everyone (again).
Malarious2010-11-28 10:37:43
QUOTE (Jello @ Nov 28 2010, 04:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't mean to say that dexterity is the main problem, but that strength not mattering/doing enough for knights is the problem. The idea that dexterity would do less if strength does more seems like a natural and necessary part of making the high-strength races better, because otherwise races with both strength and dexterity, like humans, would wreck everyone (again).
First off wouldnt that mean all monks are dex (or thats the theory) and all warriors would be strength? Thereby further creating a gap in used races?
By the way, in no way is Faeling awaiting a +strength. If anything I think it is the most overused and will soon be a far more abused race. Bring on the faeling warriors/monks that you cannot stop even worse off than now! I am a faeling alot (yes I am not illithoid! Gasp!) because they are fast, I can easily get around their low health, and the sipping is amazingly nice to offset most things. Still waiting to hear what changes they have on the way.
Unknown2010-11-28 14:32:18
QUOTE (Malarious @ Nov 28 2010, 05:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am a faeling alot (yes I am not illithoid! Gasp!) because they are fast, I can easily get around their low health, and the sipping is amazingly nice to offset most things. Still waiting to hear what changes they have on the way.
Faeling is the only spec race you see a good deal of usage of outside of its associated org. The "low con justifies a bag of other nice stats and bonuses with no penalties" argument seems not to be as big a deal as it is made out to be.
If faelings are going to get better with the speed changes? We might want to consider balancing them in some way other than the avoidable low constitution score. It would be annoying to have another year or two of one race being the only real choice for , ala old Mugwumps. Moreso if its a race associated with one org!
Ixion2010-11-28 14:38:53
Fealing should have the maluses Mugwumps do. If you want L3 speed, you should have to pay for it elsewhere.
Xenthos2010-11-28 14:48:20
QUOTE (Ixion @ Nov 28 2010, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fealing should have the maluses Mugwumps do. If you want L3 speed, you should have to pay for it elsewhere.
Alternatively; do what's been suggested to the Admin anyways and drop Faelings to a l2 bonus. Which keeps the speed (almost) the same as it is now and does not enhance the race.
Isn't that an easy solution?
Assuming that's done, the real issue is going to be Aslaran, not Faeling, anyways. Much more strength raw, same speed as Faelings are now, just a little less dex.
Unknown2010-11-28 14:56:29
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Nov 28 2010, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Alternatively; do what's been suggested to the Admin anyways and drop Faelings to a l2 bonus. Which keeps the speed (almost) the same as it is now and does not enhance the race.
Isn't that an easy solution?
Isn't that an easy solution?
Yeah, there's no need to make them a pariah race like Merians are at the moment. But being the only spec race that is frequently found attractive unspecced does speak for itself that the race is "wonky" at the very least.
Perhaps if they gained a some CON (and perhaps STR in the knight spec, just in case that ever becomes important again), and lost their extremes (reduce the balance/sip bonus to level 1) it would smooth things out a bit.
The real problem with them now is that they're aimed at two extremities- very fast, a few very high stats, balanced out with one very low stat.
When that one disadvantage can be largely if not wholly (depending who you want to believe, though "largely" certainly seems fair to me, from my own experiences changelinged in to one now and again) counterbalanced without much difficulty, you wind up with a bag o' stats effect, with balance and sip bonuses, without any real counterbalance.
Gleip2010-11-28 14:59:05
And much more charisma and intelligence, flight, sip bonus and regeneration. As long as Faelings end up the race with most Charisma, and Charisma as a stat isn't nerfed, people will pick Faeling got influencing.