I've stated as much




I didn't see any mention of giving aslaran level 3 balance, just saw that someone wanted to remove a point in STR. I think making aslaran faster isn't a good idea, even if you lower STR and CON. Partly because I know that -1 STR wouldn't be enough to really hurt my damage (see, monk), and lowering the STR by anything would harm warriors. They'd lose more than they'd gain by going from level 2 balance to level 3.

That's reasonable.

If the admins decide they want to rework dex and precision for warriors (which I don't really foresee, but hey, it could happen), would we want them to make those adjustments before trying to rework warrior races, or just adjust DEX on those races first, then consider the precision changes later?

Probably address the warrior side first. I'm against hurting monks (HURTING IS NOT THE SAME AS NERFING; I like nerfs) and would prefer that any racial changes, outside of archetypal specs, consider the entire picture rather than part.

How in the hell are Faeling a caster race? Because they have low con and decent int and charisma? The lvl 3 balance bonus is just going totally unused and only there for flavor? Really?

If you don't think they are, you can make the case. I see more faelings that are caster or bard types in Glom than are warriors or monks, so they have more to lose from gaining weaknesses because of the balance bonus than anything else.

A base faeling has a STR of 7. That is not comparable to a base INT of 15 coupled with a level 3 eq bonus.

Even if we're going to look at Shadowlord faelings now, we just had a comment that an aslaran with an STR of 11 and a balance bonus of 3 wouldn't really do anything for aslaran warriors. If we apply this same logic to Shadowlord faelings (which I feel doesn't work), then we have an argument that they have a somewhat gimped attack potential paired with more tankiness overall. Maybe that would change if I suggested removing aslaran weaknesses as well - I don't know.

Honestly, yes. Faeling are a caster race because of their Int, Cha, lack of Con and lack of Str. When Str got nerfed, they became viable but not optimal warriors. Funny, that. As for uses for a caster with a l3 Balance bonus, can anyone say "Aeon, Aeon, Hangedman, Soulless"?

EDIT: Quote added for clarity.

Let me get this straight.

You all feel that Aslaran, with +1 str, +1 con, +2 int, -2 dex vs. Shadowlords and with the same speed as Faeling is perfectly fine and needs no adjusting.

Yet Faeling clearly must be nerfed and given huge maluses atop the lower con.

???

Are you all just pretending not to have read anything we have written in order to try and stack things on? What's going on here?

So far we have stacked up a need for:

o Monk nerfs
o DEX rework
o INT rework
o CHA rework
o Viscanti buffs
o Faeling debate
o Warrior Damage/STR rework
o Illdrain nerf (cut in half)
o Kephera/Igasho/Krokani/Orclach/Taurian/Tae'dae examinations?

And furrikin still suck. Just leaving that one there.

It's not clear that Aslaran need adjusting given the malices they have in relation to Shadowlords.



It's unclear as to whether or not a reduction in balance bonus is enough, apparently. If there would be a malice, it'd be a lvl 1.

I'm not going to argue either way on nerfing faeling more, however.

I'm merely unconvinced that Aslaran need negative adjustment; I'm pro a reduction in fire weakness for them (not going to pull my hair out for this though).

The difference between a level 2 fire weakness and a level 3 sip bonus is pretty significant. It doesn't change the fact, however, that viewing shadowlord under a vacuum to nerf all faelings under is pretty unfair. Especially when there are, what, 3 active shadowlords at any given time, at most?




Furrikin with a level 2 eq bonus will be pretty nice, actually. When pressed to pick between furrikin or mugwump as a caster for speed, I think a lot more people will be inclined to go with furrikin now, unless mugwump sees more changes.

I still want to see Tae'dae get more of a sip bonus. If we want to chop down the ones faelings have, I wouldn't mind moving the level 3 sip bonus to Tae.

I think Krokani is actually pretty great, and is in a better position than Taurian. Krokani's main issue is with low INT. If it's really perceived as an issue for the race, you might give them a flat level 1 mana regen and work it into the unseen eye angle for them.

Kephera hasn't been discussed in ages. Do you have something specific you'd like to see with them?

Xenthos has been wanting them to be nerfed further, while Veyrzhul points out they're being nerfed and not receiving due compensation for it. I'm ambivalent either way, I think the race is still solid. (Buffs are always enjoyable though)

For furrikin, level 2 EQ would be nice, but so would more CON or a level 1 sip bonus. The question of 'why be furrikin when you can be faeling?' has been brought up by a few of the furrikin players here. The level 3 magic resistance isn't as big of a selling point as it used to be; damage in general (sans Fillin, where this won't help at all) is nerfed and the magic-damage-type attacks are rarely used anymore (cosmicfire, moonburst, symbol strike). Plus the resistance is ostensibly getting nerfed anyways because of the scaling changes...

See, here you're saying it would be a level 1 malus. I'm responding more to things like this, which just boggle me:


Since this post (and posts like it) appear to completely ignore the entire thread thus far in order to push an agenda.

As for the Aslaran strength; the only reason for it, imo, is because I'm similarly not convinced that we need a race that's the same speed as current Faeling with more strength than Shadowlords (and especially with a strength point that still does have an impact; from 18->19). I'm not averse to reducing the fire weakness by a level as well, but I don't think the str point is entirely appropriate once they're sped up to Faeling speed.

Not entirely so. My main point was that if their weaknesses are reduced, their strengths must be reduced as well (when the idea was first floated it was to just reduce weaknesses and leave the strengths intact), because they are not lacking in strengths at all and I feel like they're on the upper end of that spectrum as-is.

However, how are they being nerfed now? Last I heard, damage reductions / bonuses were not being changed and were off the table.

Mugwump have the INT to make their eq bonus worthwhile.

Faeling don't have the strength to do so. Even SL faeling. Monks are another question entirely (dexterity, damage, it's all dumb) but if SL faeling want more strength, the spec race on its own will have to give something up to compensate.

tl;dr: really bad comparison

... yes, Ragniliff has pointed out that it's a bad comparison many times. Yet it still comes up repeatedly, from the same cluster of people. There are many reasons why I quoted it and said that posts such as it boggle me.

And no, Shadowlords are not asking for more strength, as that post above you states. I'm not sure that adding more strength onto the 15 (or 14) percent speed bonus is okay, whether it's Aslaran or Faeling.

Kephera will be taking 9% more blunt/cutting damage and 6% more psychic damage as a result of the changes. Likewise, 6% less poison and 3% less fire/cold damage.

You're already getting the reductions you're looking for here. It's easier to make up for weaknesses (poison being an exception) than it is to cover for a loss of resistance, especially a physical one. As far as female kephera are concerned, as well, the pithy DEX still makes you warrior and monk food, so far as my own experiences have shown me.

Oh. They're probably fine at this point, unless we want to consider DEX on female kephera (as low DEX had been a similar issue with Master Viscanti).



There's still Roll to consider too, but, hmm. If the faeling sip bonus drops some, what then?

I am pretty sure the resistances/weaknesses aren't getting changed, given Sior's comments.

I do think aslaran vs. faeling still deserve a comparison, given the former's speed increase to faeling level.

Re: faelings vs. mugwump - it's like people purposefully choose to ignore opposing logic.

Faelings are being reduced to Aslaran speed

Seriously, however, when you consider the entire package (the stats, the advantages, the disadvantages), I don't see the disparity that you see. The fire weakness versus the sip bonus does matter, and it's here that I think the disparity, if there is one, is greatly undermined.

And I still think one of the most sensible places to take a cut first would be Shadowlord DEX. As seen here.

EDIT: I really need to stop using sensible so much.