A shadowlord faeling looks like this:



An Aslaran looks like this:


Assuming faelings are brought to lvl 2 balance bonus, they are still possessing of more raw advantages than Aslaran are, with none of the weaknesses.

I fail to see any logic or merit in taking a point of strength off of Aslaran whatsoever. It makes them slightly less viable as knights for no particularly good reason or gain, apart from a tit-for-tat game of "you want to nerf my side's race?! I'll nerf the one you play! That'll learn you good!", delivered with somewhat more eloquence.

Aslaran are already on the low end of knight strength appeal. SL faelings have 11, but they have much more going for them in the advantage department overall, and no malus mitgating it apart from the low con.

In fact, I would go as far to say that even the comparison itself is a tangent, a silly, derailing diversion at best, an attempt to "take you s down with me!" at worst.

It also reminds me once again why my cameo ranks very highly among my favorite artifacts.

I'll sum up my feelings on the whole thing once again:

Faelings on the whole are a race of extremes, which is inherently problematic. If you can counter the lower extreme, which seems to often be the case, than you're left with a bag of upper extremes. Thus, they need to be brought in to the "normal curve" ranges more than they are. This would both alleviate concerns about the race itself, and aid addressing other issues that crop up due to the outlier (i.e., balancing monks, etc.)

Solutions could include anything from:
Slowing them down (probably should happen)
Giving them a meaningful malus or two (personally, sorta a "meh" solution to me, as the outlier problem would still be there)
Some minor stat reductions (dex?)
Lowering the sip bonus

PROVIDED THAT:
They receive more CON (or otherwise meaningfully more health in some way, especially if they see a lower sip bonus)
They receive more STR, on the base race, or in the SL specialization (this, honestly, I feel should probably happen anyway.

Aslaran really has nothing to do with this. They should remain viable as knights. They certainly shouldn't be bound to some standard of "has to be like SL faeling, down to the identical STR score, but with maluses and fewer bonuses".

So... how about that -2 levels of balance and -1 dex as well as assorted shadow faeling nerfs that I suggested?

There's no agenda despite you're blanket comments to my posts other than wanting those with the fastest balances in the game to have to pay for them with maluses. As to your str comment, communes (aksa SLs) get weaponaura too, which is a nice bonus whereas the hardcap of +5 str limits all races, so the disparity is not as simple as you portray it to be.

Anyhow, aslaran vs faeling is clearly a touchy subject now but as the speeds are changing, I think the increase in faeling speed needs to be offset by a malus of note to bring it in line with the significant one aslari have, and the two that mugwumps have.

I like how the propositions are going in circles, completely based on which side currently has the offensive in this thread. As soon as the offensive focus changes, so do the propositions.

Aren't you an envoy IG? This should seem like par for the course.

Much is tl;dr, likely contributing to the circles.

I put it to you all: is there a convincing argument given the speed changes to come why faelings shouldn't have a malus? Why are SLs allowed to have 18 str, 20 dex (demi dex, any warrior surely would get the dex power), L3 balance, in the first place without a malus?

I didnt see a level 3 balance either, not sure that would even be a good plan.



Furrikin would be pretty awesome for casters, racial somersault is realllly undervalued.

Monks nerfs are not part of a racial report unless we are changing dex or strengths effect on monks.

Rest looks pretty much on the dot.

And someone mentioned me as an Aslaran, I am not one and have not been one for awhile. Faeling is faster, more damaging, and tankier than aslaran. If I am not a faeling I am an Illithoid for pure tanking.

So stat changes planned:
Dex: Make it not have such an effect on warrior afflictions.
Str: Believe the idea was to adjust the spread of damage.
Int: Umm... another adjustment of damage spread?
Cha: Same for bards....?

Basically the faeling issue seems to be that their only real weakness is low con, but then they overcompensated them by giving them a level 3 sipping bonus. Lower the sip bonus, maybe lower their balance, or give em a weakness, the exact changes can be heavily varied and specifics can be looked at to find the best balance for them specifically.

Can someone post the changes for all the races no longer in debate? Xiel? Furien? You two usually seem most prone to summarizing.

EDIT: Wow, in the time I was typing tons of new posts came up.

I've been looking back through the thread and couldn't find anything (may have overlooked it), so I'll ask here:

Is the testing phase over and has the server been brought down? I haven't been able to connect to it. (Although I am at work, maybe the internet here is just stupid, it usually is).

If so, is the current change log in Alianna's post (second on this thread) the most up to date one?

I don't think they can manage to get that high.

edit @Deschain: The server's up and the post is up-to-date.

11 base + 2 for demi + 5 buffs = 18.

Which is why I said -1 for SL faeling! *goes back to my suggestions*

Yep. I agree.

Look at the first page, search for 'faeling'. Notice focus directed towards improving the weaker races. Fastforward to now: all races are OK, only Faeling needs downgrading! Clearly, the only change admins have done so far has fixed all issues with the weaker races.

Is there really enough sources of strength bonuses available to practically reach +5 weighted points, though?

Yes

Umm......
+3 flex I think
+2 domoth of war
+1 geburah

Thats all I got for buffs to strength off the top of my head.

Shrink/expand.

War domoth blessing helps substantially too, otherwise you need to give up more dex to hit the ceiling.



See, you still aren't reading the important parts of what has been discussed. Over. And over. And over.

There are many more people, especially in Glomdoring, that play faeling as a caster over those that play them as SLs. Adding maluses, which will turn those casters into a stinking pile of crap, just because of what a small pool of SLs can do, is pretty unfair to the rest of those players.

This is why all the focus has been on:

reducing the balance bonus
reducing the sip bonus
tweaking dexterity

Simply put: would rather lose the bonuses than gain the maluses.

It's not as easy as a karmic blessing, but with a domoth blessing, it works.

Sounds like a compromise, if you mean reducing to L1 balance since new L2 is about the same as current.



You don't need domoths for hit +5 reliably.

Which levels are you talking about now? And are you talking about Sojiro's reduction, or Rika's reduction?

There's been a lot of suggestions, but not a concrete template. And a lot of people are going to have a lot of different opinions on this one... which is probably why no one's tried it yet.