Nydekion2010-12-12 09:39:51
While I definitely can see the link between mugwump/merian playing the caster side of the faeling/aslaran equation and how both are balanced towards that, a number of things have changed since the time mugwumps were last viable (basically back when each level of eq bonus was worth 10%) which is why you'll likely not see too many people end up in either race unless they fight in a very limited scope. Consider, you have the reduction in elemental rune costs to easily take advantage of fire/lightning vulns, the introduction of monks (with their incredibly large burst damage), ascendant destruction (100% fire damage), pyromancers, demigod zap, etc. making unavoidable high damage far more common place. It's really how easily-exploited fire and lightning vulnerabilities are in present-day Lusternia that make both races far less desirable to play compared to the standard faeling/human/furrikin/elfen/etc than before.
Calixa2010-12-12 14:20:32
Any info on how the human evolution paths were changed?
Unknown2010-12-12 14:26:11
Assuming that the changes are the same as those on the test server:
--> Human knight: +3str +2dex +1con +1cha +1int (previously +4str +2dex +2con +1cha +1int)
--> Human monk: +2dex, +2str, +2int, +1con, +1char (previously +3dex, +2str, +2int, +2con, +1char)
--> Human caster: +3int, +2dex, +1con, +1str, +1cha (previously +4int, +2dex, +2con, +1str, +1char)
--> Human knight: +3str +2dex +1con +1cha +1int (previously +4str +2dex +2con +1cha +1int)
--> Human monk: +2dex, +2str, +2int, +1con, +1char (previously +3dex, +2str, +2int, +2con, +1char)
--> Human caster: +3int, +2dex, +1con, +1str, +1cha (previously +4int, +2dex, +2con, +1str, +1char)
Sylphas2010-12-12 18:00:14
QUOTE (Nydekion @ Dec 12 2010, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While I definitely can see the link between mugwump/merian playing the caster side of the faeling/aslaran equation and how both are balanced towards that, a number of things have changed since the time mugwumps were last viable (basically back when each level of eq bonus was worth 10%) which is why you'll likely not see too many people end up in either race unless they fight in a very limited scope. Consider, you have the reduction in elemental rune costs to easily take advantage of fire/lightning vulns, the introduction of monks (with their incredibly large burst damage), ascendant destruction (100% fire damage), pyromancers, demigod zap, etc. making unavoidable high damage far more common place. It's really how easily-exploited fire and lightning vulnerabilities are in present-day Lusternia that make both races far less desirable to play compared to the standard faeling/human/furrikin/elfen/etc than before.
Comparing Mugwump tankiness to faelings is pretty laughable. 10 con and five levels of elemental malus vs 9 con and three levels of sip bonus is ridiculously skewed toward faeling. You could argue the 15 int vs 7 str there, I suppose, but there are plenty of situations where neither matters (hex speed, tarot, destruction, etc). If mugwump/merian are supposed to be similar to faeling/aslaran, someone totally failed to actually make that happen.
Nydekion2010-12-12 19:27:48
QUOTE (Sylphas @ Dec 12 2010, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Comparing Mugwump tankiness to faelings is pretty laughable. 10 con and five levels of elemental malus vs 9 con and three levels of sip bonus is ridiculously skewed toward faeling. You could argue the 15 int vs 7 str there, I suppose, but there are plenty of situations where neither matters (hex speed, tarot, destruction, etc). If mugwump/merian are supposed to be similar to faeling/aslaran, someone totally failed to actually make that happen.
That's basically the point I am making. In this last round of changes, it's apparent that mugwump and merian were balanced in regards to each other but not enough consideration was made to balance them in relation to the other available racial choices. Both are ridiculously frail in today's standards because you just have many more skills and artifacts in present-day Lusternia that can fully take advantage of their weaknesses.
Both should see a reduction in elemental maluses by 1 to fire and lightning, with an elixir bonus of some sort.
Unknown2010-12-12 19:30:42
QUOTE (Nydekion @ Dec 12 2010, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's basically the point I am making. In this last round of changes, it's apparent that mugwump and merian were balanced in regards to each other but not enough consideration was made to balance them in relation to the other available racial choices. Both are ridiculously frail in today's standards because you just have many more skills and artifacts in present-day Lusternia that can fully take advantage of their weaknesses.
Both should see a reduction in elemental maluses by 1 to fire and lightning, with an elixir bonus of some sort.
Both should see a reduction in elemental maluses by 1 to fire and lightning, with an elixir bonus of some sort.
Or give one the elixir bonus and one more con, if you want some variety.
Unknown2010-12-12 19:33:28
Con -is- overrated in Lusternia.
Nydekion2010-12-12 20:11:13
Well, having a higher health pool still gives bonuses to sparkleberry healing and some protection against burst damage so I guess there's that.
Malicia2010-12-12 20:24:29
I had really hoped to see the elemental resistances softened/lowered. The issue with the race isn't necessarily its offensive power but the ability to -tank-. It has been the problem since day one and hasn't been addressed with this round of racial changes. One of the main reasons I dropped merian for human was because of the lowering of prices on the elemental warrior runes.
Malarious2010-12-16 06:55:55
QUOTE (Malicia @ Dec 12 2010, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I had really hoped to see the elemental resistances softened/lowered. The issue with the race isn't necessarily its offensive power but the ability to -tank-. It has been the problem since day one and hasn't been addressed with this round of racial changes. One of the main reasons I dropped merian for human was because of the lowering of prices on the elemental warrior runes.
Please dont tell me that the previous changes will be all of them, alot has not been fixed, and some things were not even touched at all (Taurian, Merian were only partly touched, Viscanti, and is that really all the love for Orclach?).
Sior? Please????
Unknown2010-12-16 07:46:33
And the furrikin eq bonus. I think that was an excellent excellent -excellent- idea for furrikin.
Shamarah2010-12-16 14:01:00
In retrospect, the furrikin eq bonus was actually probably a little too strong.
Sylphas2010-12-16 14:18:50
QUOTE (Shamarah @ Dec 16 2010, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In retrospect, the furrikin eq bonus was actually probably a little too strong.
Int, however, is a pittance. Faeling are pretty much all around better unless you need to tank pure magic damage.
Really, what stand out to me was the lack of Aero/pyro regen for trill and dracnari. I have absolutely no clue how you do a racial revamp without fixing that.
Arcanis2010-12-17 20:29:40
QUOTE (Sylphas @ Dec 16 2010, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Really, what stand out to me was the lack of Aero/pyro regen for trill and dracnari. I have absolutely no clue how you do a racial revamp without fixing that.
This.
Merian and Viscanti mage currently have regeneration within their own demesnes, which many look as a positive when they want to become Aquamancers and Geomancers (I mean come on, who wouldnt like extra regen in their melds? ). Dracnari currently have painful disadvantages against their health, and trill dont have the highest of Cons (not saying it sucks though). This change would be helpful for more survivability for mage for both.
Also I since we are talking about the Dracnari race, they currently have the disadvantages of: level 3 weakness to frost AND penalty to sip of level 2. While trill on the other hand have only: level 1 weakness to fire, also lucidian have: level 2 weakness to fire and level 1 weakness to blunt. This seems an unfair balance to the whole Fire/Cold damage abilities. I think dracnari frost weakness needs to be lowered to at least level 2. I would rather the sip penalty be removed altogether but if it has to stay then it should be level 1.
If its a no to the lowering of their weakness to frost, then at least the removal of the sip penalty would have to be implemented. Level 2 sip penalty seems very unfair for the race and is one of the main reasons people wont go Drac for combat (the most at all that do currently are for RP reasons).
Unknown2010-12-17 21:08:52
Furrikin wasn't a terrible race and didn't really need the EQ bonus.
Trill/dracnari not having regen in their meld probably should have gone in though.
Trill/dracnari not having regen in their meld probably should have gone in though.
Nydekion2010-12-17 21:20:40
I can see the regen but dracnari really have exceptionally high constitution (15), high intelligence with the illuminated spec (above average without), and some nice resistances (level 3 fire, level 1 poison, leve 3 psychic) to balance out the sip/cold malus.
Arcanis2010-12-17 23:03:06
QUOTE (Nydekion @ Dec 18 2010, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can see the regen but dracnari really have exceptionally high constitution (15), high intelligence with the illuminated spec (above average without), and some nice resistances (level 3 fire, level 1 poison, leve 3 psychic) to balance out the sip/cold malus.
Right, Dracnari do have a 15 Con, but Lucidians have a 14 Con which doesnt drop too far from the ball. Trill and Dracnari share the same intelligence amount, both normal and spec, also Lucidian have an even higher intelligence then Dracnari, in relation to when normal and spec.
Concerning resistances, Dracnari do have some good ones, level 3 fire is almost a given from where they come from and are about . level 1 poison is okay but not exactly something that is highly used. and Level 3 psychic only works for very few abilities that even do psychic damage.
Looking at Trill first, they have the Resistances of: level 3 cold, level 2 electric and level 2 psychic.
Lucidian are: level 2 magic, level 1 electric, level 1 cutting and level 3 psychic.
So the resistances arent exactly unbalanced or unfair to either of them .
Okay then, so like I mentioned before, Dracnari have the level 3 weakness to frost and level 2 sip penalty, while Trill have only a level 1 fire weakness and lucidian have a level 2. Dracnari would go down very fast to frost damage from these disadvantages, and like I pointed out with resistances and stats, they arent surpassing their "rival races" in anything overly the top. With just the fix up (or in my opinion complete removal) of the sip penalty on Dracnari, we would see alot more inclined to become one.
Unknown2010-12-17 23:09:08
Ah, the viscanti argument. Nice to see you back my friend.
Shamarah2010-12-17 23:13:33
Yeah, cold is really a crippling weakness considering how many sources of cold damage there are in this game. Oh, wait...
Ileein2010-12-17 23:17:56
Fire, on the other hand... *twitch*