Doesn't the nightwraith effect give you a stat alteration of somesort as well? Don't know if that was accounted for or not.

Yeah, the size change explained why the DEX bump from Nightwraith wasn't showing either.

Edit: Oh, and instead of double posting, I feel obliged to add since they said they wanted statistics and bullet points for suggestions and whatnot:

Trill:
Suggestion: Convert flying regeneration to cloud(ed/y) terrain regeneration.

Dracnari:
Suggestion: Convert volcanic regeneration to burn(ed/ing) terrain regeneration.

Rationale:
At last glance, all org spec races have access to a terrain regeneration that is actually able to be procured by their mage/druid counterparts. The only exceptions would be these two races (and lucidian, but they have that outdoor daytime thing going on, and I don't know if they want to give that up since it's more widespread than the above two instances), but either way, could use a glance at to even out the terrain regenerations.

Well if we're really going down this tangent, we can just take out all the universal buffs and leave in the org-specific ones like vileblood, lichdom (??), etc.

I've never once denied that viscanti don't need buffs, but I still haven't been filled with confidence about any of the ideas about them so far.

I guess it is cool that you don't make the decision then. I mean, the thread is for posting suggestions and letting Sior and the admins go through them. I don't think, in the end, that individual player's shooting down ideas is going to have a huge effect on the end decision. Ideas are worth more then saying "no".

I didn't know I wasn't allowed to express my thoughts about why I think asking for those specific buffs aren't going to fly, but don't worry, I'm equally glad 'viscanti' players don't get to make the decisions either.

Oh, so you're encouraging members of all races to very loudly present ideas in hopes of being given an equal chance at consideration - because if Envoys have taught us anything, is that if you don't speak up, admins will consider the few points available as valid. This will get messy, and will become an even more of a 'chicken with it's head cut off' effort with nobody knowing what exactly are admins aiming to fix, as it has been for the past month and a half.

/continue suggesting, I'm out of this thread as I was before due to a lack of common goal...

I'd just like to agree with the suggestion that Dracnari/Trill swap their existing regen for fire/cloud! Even though there's barely any natural fire/cloud terrain. Natural terrain's not what it's wanted for, anyway, though.

Read what I wrote, not what you want to. I used Alianna's idea (that you approve of it looks) but changed the dex and int (or cha) to be a change to base. Resistances are still reduced either way.

As to them basically being humans with resists and sip penalty, their other stats still remain below human minimum and the fact is they still do suffer their sip penalty.

Disclaimer: Malarious is an Illithoid/Faeling/Aslaran/Human. Viscanti is a horrible race for him because it is not made to be a monk in any way shape or form. It benefits me in no way to try to adjust Viscanti, I simply give my thoughts on what would make it usable. The specifics I can leave to whoever wants to consider them.

On a related note, an Orclach monk you say?

With 8 int and 8 charisma? Its a nerfed Krokani with higher weakness! I did actually go orclach for a few when racials started, mana and ego under 5000 if not 4000.

If you're including these nerfs in addition to your suggestions, then maybe you should have actually mentioned them as well, instead of just all buffs.

But since you did not, looks like you didn't read Alianna's report either, brah.

Alianna's idea gave stat changes, resistance nerf, sipping nerf, etc. My reply is below


I understand now where you lost the track I was on.

1) Alianna posted
2) I agreed with her but say the above
3) Nariah posted
4) I post Aliannas "buffs" column with the changes I said above

The full changes are below, I assumed charisma racially, so specs are modified by that.

Buffs:
o Sip malus: 2 -> 1
o Viscanti +2 base dex
o Viscanti +1 base int or cha (charisma is assumed this time)
o Master Viscanti: +1 int (for a total of +4)
o Brood Viscanti: (No further change)
o Irontongue Viscanti: +1 int, +1 cha, +1 dex (for a total of +3, +3, +1).

Nerfs:
o Magic resistance: 2 -> 1
o Blunt resistance: 2 -> 1
o Cutting resistance: 2 -> 1

Hope that clarifies.

I think Malarious's suggested changes are pretty good, although I would say the +1 to int/cha for the base race is probably not necessary.

That makes it way clearer and better.

Like Shamarah, I don't see the need for an increase in INT for the base Viscanti race, but extended over to not seeing the need in the spec races either, especially in comparison to the other org caster spec races. I've no mind to the rest regarding DEX, resistances and sip maluses though, so go for it.

Besides the regeneration question I have for Trills and Dracnari, I also wonder if things are being reviewed for the non-org melee races like Taurians, Orclach, Igasho and Tae'dae? As I understand it, Dwarves, Krokani, Loboshigaru and Aslarans are all desirable because of their mix of statistics and regenerative(loboshigaru)/defensive(dwarves and krokani)/speed(aslarans) buffs and you actually see them being played. The others, however, are not moreso seen because I'm assuming of the mix of unpleasant maluses with their overall horrid dexterity and mental prowess.

What could be done for those to actually bring them some interest?

The charisma buff is the primary hope I believe. If needed I can report the ideas reflecting only the charisma/dex changes and irontongue?

I'd say dex is more necessary than cha or int.

Up to you what you want to do, really. I just don't think INT needs buffing on Viscanti in either the base or spec form.

Updates! Here is the new list after discussing with some peeps

Buffs:
o Sip malus: 2 -> 1
o Viscanti +2 base dex
o Irontongue Viscanti: +1 int, +1 cha, +1 dex (for a total of +3, +3, +1).

Nerfs:
o Magic resistance: 2 -> 1
o Blunt resistance: 2 -> 1
o Cutting resistance: 2 -> 1

With the smaller list it seems alot more underwhelming. I would like to ask about that +debate damage again if we are leavin low charismas

Not to say that it seems like we are trading alot for a little but... I suppose I should sleep on it.

Geomancers already get +debate damage with their staff. Stacking that with a racial sounds fairly dangerous. I think just upping the base charisma is good enough.

A more general statement to the currently considered changes:

I don't see why resistances were flattened along with weaknesses. I can see how even a single weakness of a level higher than 1 can currently make things really hard, especially if it is a common damage type or even one just common to a certain (enemy) guild. With resistances, it is quite a different matter. Even a number of those won't make the character more powerful to the same degree that weaknesses hamper, since there are just so many other means of killing aside from damage (and damage types not covered by the resistances). If anything, resistance levels should be kept or even increased slightly. It has been stated quite a few times that races with high resistances usually have speed penalties and so are already affected negatively by the speed level 'upgrade'.

I'm all for the increase of the impact of speed levels as they're planned, though. I generally think that the races should stand apart from one another more strongly, rather than be leveled by decreasing the effects of boni/mali.

Wait, staff boosts debate damage? I thought it only boosts magic-source damage. Will have to test at some point.