I'm not an envoy and I'm not gonna pretend I'm the know all of combat. I am however smart enough to know when one thing is better than the other. Either be productive, or get out of this thread.

Also, before it even gets to that point, the "Munsia" argument is moot. Basing how good a skill is on one person who isn't even active let alone in the guild that the skills came from is a dumb idea. If we judged the geomancy skill based on Fillin, where would we be then? No, Munsia is not a valid argument.

Edit: I apologise for that, but if you're gonna post here please don't just throw up silly GIFs or posts with only emotes in them. It is a waste of my time to read them and it doesn't add anything to the conversation. If you have to facepalm and imply I am being stupid, please just make a sentence saying I am stupid, and why. I am not going to learn anything from a facepalm emote.

Jeez, Furien wrote you paragraphs over what is a bit of a stupid thread. Under powered pyromancers are a known issue. Forum whining has a tendency to do jack squat in terms of balancing out combat. You're better off bothering your envoy if you want to see anything change.

So wait, you made a thread saying your skills are underpowered and you're not even sure what all your skills do?

If it's a known issue then I guess there was no point in this thread. I just wanted to make sure it was voiced as I hadn't seen any other threads commenting on it. IMO its a pretty dire situation. If everything Furian said was true about how the report came to pass, this system doesn't work anyways.

Shamarah: I know what my skills do. One of them happens to have confusing wording is all, so I lumped it in with the others. Oh well, you were all gonna flame whether I made the most brilliant post or the dumbest one anyways.

here's a concept. why don't you speak to lyria and kalikai and look into bring pyro envoy?


btw, i think you're confusing flaming with lulz.

When you come in defensive your predictions come true! What a shock!

And yeah, in seriousness go talk to your envoy and divine if you're serious about making changes. Maybe run for champion? Work on what you can do as a pyromancer and pull some people into combat. More people using pyromancy the more ideas you're going to get. And one of the big issues with the envoy process that nerfed pyros is that everyone thought they needed nerfs and no one is very good at recognizing when they're then making things too low.

Elections for champ have ended, Arcanis is the new Pyromancer Champ. I'll be taking a back seat to all this and spending most of my time aetherhunting to build up more friendly demigods and also to gain more lesson fat.

I agree, it's difficult to see how bad the result is going to be when nerfing something. Especially when you look at the current state and see it being so OP. I just hope someone makes changes for the better.

so because you didn't get champ, it's not worth working on?

that's precisely the wrong way to be. the fact is, 90% of people who contest for a position because they think they can "change things" or "make a difference" don't last long in their role. people always think a guild position makes them special when it's actually the other way around. it's what you bring to a role that makes it special, not the other way around.


you don't need a title to make a difference, only a willingness to work. and no offense bro, but hiding in a ship and grumbling isn't going to fix anything.

i guess the tl;dr is this:


if you only wanted champ so you could change things, you didn't deserve champ. if you don't think the pyros are worth working on without your having special privs or perks, you might consider a guild change.

Alternatively, politics is hard work and I just need a rest. Especially after all your work becomes a failure. I'll be back, better than I am now. Having champion makes it easier to change things, so I don't know what you are on about.

The way I see it is this. By this election, the guild has decided my kind of changes aren't what is needed, and someone elses are. I'm not gonna keep forcing my opinion on other people if it's not respected.

Hi Daedroth.


You're overstating it just a bit, but yes. Pyromancy is largely terrible. You can thank a special report that was bullied through when there was nobody on gaudi's side politically active at the moment.

Mirage, while theoretically confusing to automappers and navigation systems, is pathetic. When I was a pyromancer and used it defending, it did not slow down raiders in the slightest. It is a neat idea with crap implementation. Perhaps this would work better if pyromancers had a demesne effect that also concealed exits, but it doesn't- it can conceal the map, and it can make all demesne rooms appear as "burning desert".

You don't really have hindering. You have a few things that can be used with interesting effect, but if you're looking for a meld with overall usefulness, look elsewhere.

But yes, aeros have it substantially better than you do. Welcome to the world of gross envoy fraud.

Oh, and illus are getting the same treatment relative to researchers. My advice? Do what I did. Leave gaudi. Heck, join researchers- they do more damge than your pyromancer self will ever practically manage! You can join in on the zerg-room-damage-skill-clear-rooms-of-defenders joke, and maybe have some fun.

But without a little admin intervention, leave gaudi for the mechanical whipping-boy it is, because its pretty much doomed.

Somehow, the truth hurts more than everyone else telling me I'm wrong.

Well, only because of psionics is this statement true enough. Still, pyros need something to keep people from frolicing through the demesne entirely. At the moment, running through a pyro demesne is more a light show than a real hinderance. Moreso if you know where you're going by looking at room exits.

Keep in mind I am not a rawr-combatant, nor do I pretend to be. I'm also excessively bitter, and prone to use my bitterness to exaggerate (slightly!) It has become my particular idiom.

So I wouldn't take what I say on the subject as gospel truth. It IS one of the reasons I bailed on gaudi- halli skills being made better and better while gaudi skills are frauded in to the ground. In my opinion, since most of what passed as gaudi's fighters flopped over to Halli and instantly changed their tunes, I saw no reason to make a losing stand in a city doomed, again in my opinion, to the mechanical junk pile.

Munsia does kill people. Largely with TK, but she does it. Abuses the crap out of shield slam, but she does it. I make no illusions to the fact that she's a far better mage than I ever even tried to be.

But over all, if you want to stay a mage, and get a demesne that does what you want it to, go to Geos/Aeros.

I hear aqua is pretty crap, but I'll not even pretend to know why on that issue.

Yes, it is okay. Out of it all, someone has to be the worst! Don't feel bad, the aquas are with ya. And we love you.

But really, you need to envoy this baby up! Have a brainstorming session with people who don't suck monkey butt. If any aquas find some lackluster, we talk about and present it to our envoy. If he likes it, he runs it through the envoys. It doesn't always come out the way you want, but something comes out. Check out the history of preserve! But check out all the other stuff we managed to change. May take some time and effort (and good ideas), but the Pyros will get buffs slowly.

Hold a guild meeting? Throw out the problems onto the table. Explain them well. Then come up with a list. You can present..I think two at a time via the envoy reports and one gets approved at a time, but the envoys are able to comment on them. Yes, there will be a LOT of opposition because your enemies do not want you to get anything useful, but keep at it.

We tried this sort of thing back when I was in it. I was initially optimistic. But the problem is, that initial envoy report took the vase of pyromancy, threw it against the wall, threw the pieces in a fire, then sent the remains to the bottom of the ocean. I mean, it needed changing, but what it got was crap.

It deserves a special report, if only to repair some of the gross levels of fraud that went into that initial report. It needs a fresh start. Tried asking for that, admin said no.

And now, looks like researcher/illu balance is getting flushed down the same toilet?

Pass.

There is something called the echo chamber effect. I am sensing its influence. :/ Also possibly confirmation bias? There's a reason I try not to pay attention to the Envoy Wars^TM.

What I don't understand is where this 'zomg we're completely horrible' coming from. With Psionics as a tertiary, mages are not going to be in that boat for a long, long time, and Pyromancy as it is right now? People haven't even said what is actually WRONG with it. All I see so far is that people claiming they're not combatants yet saying the skillset is terribad to deal with.

Subsequent envoy reports after the Pyromancy report just tried to bring it to becoming Geo 2.0 (I mean, really, a broken legs report, then a stun report, then a report to bring back regen level affs passively? All on top of what is already in place?) without any actual notes as to why something doesn't work.

Until solid facts and numbers are brought up that could possibly sway the masses as to thinking anything else other than going with the gut reaction of 'we're horrible', I don't think this thread will go very far. Neither would any requests for another special report in the future either.

We explained the problems in prior conversations and recorded the issues. One of the foremost is the utter lack of any way to stop people from trapsing in and out of the demesne at will. Mirage does NOT cut it, because even with full effects, you can still see every room exit. I put it up defending fire as a matter of course, and it never even remotely seemed to disortient anyone, ever. -and that's with the terrain advantage of fighting on fire and people getting tossed around!

There are very good reasons, beyond "magnaguch" that the combatants that were in pyromancers nearly utterly abandoned it once the utter fraud of that special report went through. Certainly, some would leave once it wasn't overpowered like it was, but nearly all bailed. The guild can't even keep an envoy to FIX the problems, because nobody who fights, bar munsia, has wanted to touch the guild in the nine-odd months since it was trashed by a very bad special report.

And while people can raise the "gaudi drama keeps people out" flag, pyro's abandonment occured before that was ever a real issue.