While I don't want to be the grumpy old man who talks about how the kids these days have it so easy, it does have to be pointed out that one's sense of what's an appropriate reward for getting demigod is hard to calibrate, when it used to take at least ten times as much time and effort as it does now, and people who got it by the in-game age of 17 are in the same conversation with those who got it when even astral hunting took thousands of hours to do it. People are talking as if it's always been one thing when it's barely even comparable.

And it's not our fault that rewards were handed out, and then more were made based on player input that will never be achieved by those players the system claims to serve. The issue was "We have tons of essence and nothing to do with it." It wasn't "Please give us a ton of game-breaking abilities because we feel entitled." Other solutions could have been implemented, but this is what we have, and people think it has issues.

Which was immediately followed by "Give us something to do with it." See?

I agree that the whole system is messed up. It doesn't work. It's unfortunate that every solution presented or implemented thus far has done nothing to satisfy neither those who want more nor those who think it is too much already.

Another option would just have been to remove the accrual of essence, make it impossible to lose demigod, and rank them all the same. That doesn't give people something to do, though, so it's a terrible solution. Instead, they implemented something that keeps people grinding.

People who like to kill things and influence asked for a reason to keep doing those things and were given one. They are unhappy with how that was done and are complaining. I don't see any of that as entitlement, unless you think people wanting a(nother) reason to play the game is entitlement.

"Give us something to do with it" is not entitlement or a bad thing. Games need an 'end game' mechanic where there is something for their top-level people to keep on working for if they so wish.

However, it should not be something they feel required to do, nor should it be something that is a complete PITA to deal with. The current system definitely is the latter.

I feel like the whole argument falls flat on its face when you actually look at 90% of the abilities in question, though. Only a handful of them will affect combat in any meaningful way, and those can be made exceptions / whatever if absolutely necessary. The rest are more flavour / fluff, and would add more to the gaming experience without being 'omg combat rawr'.

You even talk about that as being a good thing.

It is definitely possible to tweak the system in such a way as to remove a lot of the negative aspects, while still keeping its general theme, so that it can be more enjoyable. I give my suggestions in the first post. Again, I do not feel as if that is 'entitlement' in any way; the system has already been made. It's absolutely frustrating to deal with. In a game, frustrating mechanics need to be addressed / dealt with if you want to keep your customers happy.

If the abilities are going to be significant/useful, then they need to be fully and equally accessible to everyone. Not an ascended subset of the population. Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing that at all.

Make ascension only apply to doing domoths and an honours line. Open the essense shop/demi-powers system up to everyone and put them on the same playing field. No more tiered system.

As someone who, due to the nature of my job, has never, in three years, been logged on for any seal event or final ascension event? Meaning my only shot at a seal would be beauty? I fail to see why I should hurl the money said job provides me with at a game if its going to support content of a small subset of the playerbase that, for a variety of reasons, I will never get to access.

I find the system itself obnoxious. People who get ascended tend to be special in one way or another on their own merits. They don't need the mechanical edge over others that they already DO have. It certainly should not be exasperated further.

Now, if we do want to put everyone on the same playing field for late game powers and such, then yes, by all means, revamp things.

Content for all. Tiered systems are ultimately unfair and a pretty poor incentive for me to continue to throw credits at this game.

Not to derail, but can I have my essence refund now too. I got some veneration to learn.

Can I have my god back? Avatar would be nice, some day. Just sayin'...

Having a God doesn't necessarily mean being an Avatar.

That said, at this point I'm not sure anyone but Eventru is happy with the system as it is. We could really use some review here.

You're correct, but not having a god means not having even a small shot at Avatar. I mean, other orders have multiple Avatars, something I didn't even realize was possible until recently.

Just as people are saying too much effort goes into Ascendant abilities when so few people can actually use them, it's even more true about Avatars with their small cults and steep costs.

They did say a few more powers were in the works, so I'll be patient and wait to see what comes around.

I think it's pretty much a sure thing that far more people have access to Avatar than Ascendant abilities at this point. What's perhaps more important is that almost anyone can: about the only thing to prevent it is not having an active god at the moment. If you want it enough, you can go get it. Not so Ascendant stuff: if you don't have it, odds are you will never have it, and nothing you can do can change that.

Not really, since admins can't just give it to as many people as they want.

The only thing stopping them is if there's enough essence and enough demigods, both of which are within the power of the players to attain.

I have a feeling essence is not the only thing the gods have to take into consideration.

That seems to be the only thing they absolutely have to have. Will they put more considerations on choice based on how they want to work their own roleplay as a god? Possibly. And that's their right. Do they just not have enough time to give additional avatars proper attention beyond giving them the powers? Possibly.

But it doesn't change the fact that there is a very real mechanical gap in comparing avatars and ascendants.

No, I mean I think the gods have their own divine currency that they have to use as well as essence.

Avatars are solely determined in cost of essence (about 1/5th of the cost of a cult)

Hmm cults are cheaper than I thought.

No, it's just the essence it costs them -- essence that the demigod can go out and get for them. Sure, the god doesn't have to make the cult if they really refuse -- and the demigod doesn't have to stay in their order.

What this all gets back to is that there's a meaningful difference between "you may have to climb a lot of mountains to get there" and "no matter what you do, getting there is not possible" even when the mountains are very hard and costly to climb.