Janalon2011-01-19 22:35:23
Dunno. This started as an inquiry as to the benefits of trade skills outside of economic productivity. So I decided to compile a list. My general methodology was to omit any trade skill that created an item that could be bought or sold, leaving utilities, miniatures, constructs, the trans ability, and any other interesting caveats. See the list below (with much thanks to Xiel):
ALCHEMY
LORECRAFT
BREWMEISTER
ARTISAN
BOOKBINDER
COOKING
ENCHANTMENT
COSMIC SPELLCRAFTER
ELEMENTAL SPELLCRAFTER
TINKERER
FORGER
HERBALIST
JEWELER
POISONS
TAILORING
Was intrigued to see a tremendous amount of development in guild-specific trade skills like forging and brewmeister. Others, like tinkering, seemed lacking (in either constructs or miniatures). Cooking and Brewmeister trans abilities don't immediately and individually benefit the tradesperson.
Does anything else stand out from this view?
ALCHEMY
CODE
Miniatures         Invest your figurines with celerity.
LORECRAFT
CODE
Constructs         Create a golden heart to power a construct.
PhilosopherStone   Indeed, every alchemist dreams of possessing one.
PhilosopherStone   Indeed, every alchemist dreams of possessing one.
BREWMEISTER
CODE
Belch              BRRAAaaapp! Only a brewmeister can belch with such force!
BeerBelly          Fortified beer belly is difficult to puncture.
PukeMaster          Sometimes purging your gut from too much excess is needed.
StandingDrunk      In the world of brewmeisters, only amateurs have blackouts.
SteelGut            Who says only dwarves can handle their brews?
TeaCeremony        The proper tea ceremony harmonizes both spirit and body.
BeerBelly          Fortified beer belly is difficult to puncture.
PukeMaster          Sometimes purging your gut from too much excess is needed.
StandingDrunk      In the world of brewmeisters, only amateurs have blackouts.
SteelGut            Who says only dwarves can handle their brews?
TeaCeremony        The proper tea ceremony harmonizes both spirit and body.
ARTISAN
CODE
InteriorDesign      A keen eye for design to determine furniture placement.
FightingRings      A ring for enchanted miniatures to wage battles.
Constructs          Build a colossus to do battle on nexus worlds.
Prized              Nothing can separate you from your prized furniture.
FightingRings      A ring for enchanted miniatures to wage battles.
Constructs          Build a colossus to do battle on nexus worlds.
Prized              Nothing can separate you from your prized furniture.
BOOKBINDER
CODE
Language            Learn a racial language and its writings.
Language            Learn a racial language and its writings.
Language            Learn a racial language and its writings.
Language            Learn a racial language and its writings.
Language            Learn a racial language and its writings.
Miniatures          Scribe figurines with magical script.
Divine              Learn to write in the divine script.
Constructs          Prepare a special scroll to curse enemy constructs.
MagicTome          Only a bookbinder can use these special books.
Language            Learn a racial language and its writings.
Language            Learn a racial language and its writings.
Language            Learn a racial language and its writings.
Language            Learn a racial language and its writings.
Miniatures          Scribe figurines with magical script.
Divine              Learn to write in the divine script.
Constructs          Prepare a special scroll to curse enemy constructs.
MagicTome          Only a bookbinder can use these special books.
COOKING
CODE
Tasting            Your taste buds will improve as does your cooking skill.
Portions            When you cook, you may create extra portions of food.
Piping              Embellish your cakes with frosted messages.
Miniatures          Cook miniature meals.
Constructs          Whip up a keg of pure nutrients, just for constructs.
Dietician          By mastering your diet, you eat less often.
HeroFete            A rare feast to send off a group of adventuring heroes.
Portions            When you cook, you may create extra portions of food.
Piping              Embellish your cakes with frosted messages.
Miniatures          Cook miniature meals.
Constructs          Whip up a keg of pure nutrients, just for constructs.
Dietician          By mastering your diet, you eat less often.
HeroFete            A rare feast to send off a group of adventuring heroes.
ENCHANTMENT
COSMIC SPELLCRAFTER
CODE
Hexangle            Increase power with magic etchings.
Miniatures          Enchant finished miniatures to wage battles.
Pentangle          Speed up with magic etchings.
Constructs          Enchant a golden heart to power a construct.
MagiCrown          The Crown of the Magi is enchantable and reduces mana cost.
Miniatures          Enchant finished miniatures to wage battles.
Pentangle          Speed up with magic etchings.
Constructs          Enchant a golden heart to power a construct.
MagiCrown          The Crown of the Magi is enchantable and reduces mana cost.
ELEMENTAL SPELLCRAFTER
CODE
Hexangle            Increase power with magic etchings.
Miniatures          Enchant finished miniatures to wage battles.
Pentangle          Speed up with magic etchings.
Constructs          Enchant a golden heart to power a construct.
MagiCrown          The Crown of the Magi is enchantable and reduces mana cost.
Miniatures          Enchant finished miniatures to wage battles.
Pentangle          Speed up with magic etchings.
Constructs          Enchant a golden heart to power a construct.
MagiCrown          The Crown of the Magi is enchantable and reduces mana cost.
TINKERER
CODE
Largo*Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Magic etchings strengthen your music.
RoseGlasses*Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Craft spectacles to color your world.
RoseGlasses*Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Craft spectacles to color your world.
FORGER
CODE
Temper              Temper the quality of weapons to prepare for Great Runes.
Genyur              A dwarven rune that increases the durability of armour.
Girnyur            A dwarven rune that reinforces blunt damage on armour.
Smelt              Smelt your weapons down into their component parts.
Eftyur              A dwarven rune that reinforces cutting damage on armour.
Rimyur              A dwarven rune that increases the precision of weapons.
Gukyur              A dwarven rune that increases the damage of weapons.
Miniatures          Fashion brass knuckles and helmets for your miniatures.
Duryur              A dwarven rune that increases the speed of weapons.
Constructs          A steel girdle to strengthen the attacks of constructs.
Masterarmour        A suit of heroic armour exclusively for legendary knights.
Genyur              A dwarven rune that increases the durability of armour.
Girnyur            A dwarven rune that reinforces blunt damage on armour.
Smelt              Smelt your weapons down into their component parts.
Eftyur              A dwarven rune that reinforces cutting damage on armour.
Rimyur              A dwarven rune that increases the precision of weapons.
Gukyur              A dwarven rune that increases the damage of weapons.
Miniatures          Fashion brass knuckles and helmets for your miniatures.
Duryur              A dwarven rune that increases the speed of weapons.
Constructs          A steel girdle to strengthen the attacks of constructs.
Masterarmour        A suit of heroic armour exclusively for legendary knights.
HERBALIST
CODE
Smoking            You can pack pipes with herbs for maximum smokeability.
Miniatures          Pack battle figurines with sparkleberry.
Constructs          Use herbs to help heal a nexus construct and colossus.
Herblore            An affinity to herbs allows you to ingest them quickly.
Miniatures          Pack battle figurines with sparkleberry.
Constructs          Use herbs to help heal a nexus construct and colossus.
Herblore            An affinity to herbs allows you to ingest them quickly.
JEWELER
CODE
GemCutting          Uncover the hidden treasures of gem commodities.
Piercing            For those who dare, you can pierce their body parts.
Repair              Repair jewelry so they'll last forever.
Engraving          Messages may be engraved on jewelry or armour.
MasterCut          You can cut multiple gemstones from a single stroke.
Miniatures          Create blank miniatures, ready for a skilled sculptor.
Melt                Melt jewelry down to their component parts.
Constructs          A set of clockwork gears to increase a construct's speed.
Tierstone          The tierstone is a perfect gem that sees far.
Piercing            For those who dare, you can pierce their body parts.
Repair              Repair jewelry so they'll last forever.
Engraving          Messages may be engraved on jewelry or armour.
MasterCut          You can cut multiple gemstones from a single stroke.
Miniatures          Create blank miniatures, ready for a skilled sculptor.
Melt                Melt jewelry down to their component parts.
Constructs          A set of clockwork gears to increase a construct's speed.
Tierstone          The tierstone is a perfect gem that sees far.
POISONS
CODE
Extracting          Basic ability to extract venoms from poisonous creatures.
Identification      Identify creatures with known poisons.
Miniatures          Dip figurines into poison to give it a breath attack.
Constructs          Use crotamine to allow constructs a special attack.
Immunity            Immunize yourself against the effects of one poison.
Identification      Identify creatures with known poisons.
Miniatures          Dip figurines into poison to give it a breath attack.
Constructs          Use crotamine to allow constructs a special attack.
Immunity            Immunize yourself against the effects of one poison.
TAILORING
CODE
Embroidery          Embroider messages onto clothing.
Mending            Stitch up and repair worn clothing, extending its life.
Miniatures          Battle figurines shouldn't go without!
Constructs          A special cloak enormous enough to protect constructs.
Splendor            Only you can wear an outfit so well-tailored.
Mending            Stitch up and repair worn clothing, extending its life.
Miniatures          Battle figurines shouldn't go without!
Constructs          A special cloak enormous enough to protect constructs.
Splendor            Only you can wear an outfit so well-tailored.
Was intrigued to see a tremendous amount of development in guild-specific trade skills like forging and brewmeister. Others, like tinkering, seemed lacking (in either constructs or miniatures). Cooking and Brewmeister trans abilities don't immediately and individually benefit the tradesperson.
Does anything else stand out from this view?
Xenthos2011-01-19 22:55:38
QUOTE (Janalon @ Jan 19 2011, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anything else stand out from this view?
Yes. For some reason you left Extract and Gemcut in, which are the basics of their tradeskills (without them you can't do the trade).
You also count things like Language multiple times when it's pretty much one thing (having the same ability listed multiple times does not make it more developed IMO), and I also feel like Forging's runes are much the same; sure they are multiple abilities, but they could just as easily be one ability that is etched on something and provides all the enhancements, much like artifact runes currently do.
Essentially, number of abilities is 100% pointless to compare, and you can't use that to discuss whether something is more developed or not.
Forging runes are, essentially, 1 ability since you use them all at the same time.
Unknown2011-01-19 22:57:10
Why are you calling tailoring embroidery?
But anyway, tailors also get proofs.
But anyway, tailors also get proofs.
Aerotan2011-01-19 22:58:10
Tailoring != Embroidery, which is also missing Mend
It might be interesting to compare the various trade items as well, like the shears, the hammer(s), and the gloves(es).
It might be interesting to compare the various trade items as well, like the shears, the hammer(s), and the gloves(es).
Rika2011-01-19 23:07:57
I don't think you can really compare trade skills without considering what kind of things they can make.
Xenthos2011-01-19 23:22:38
And how time consuming they are.
Llandros2011-01-20 00:15:56
You included the etchings from cosmic and elemental enchanting but not the etchings in tinkering. I don't know if that was intentional or an overisght but they are comprable in my opinion.
Janalon2011-01-20 00:25:32
QUOTE (Xenthos @ Jan 19 2011, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes. For some reason you left Extract and Gemcut in, which are the basics of their tradeskills (without them you can't do the trade).
You also count things like Language multiple times when it's pretty much one thing (having the same ability listed multiple times does not make it more developed IMO), and I also feel like Forging's runes are much the same; sure they are multiple abilities, but they could just as easily be one ability that is etched on something and provides all the enhancements, much like artifact runes currently do.
Essentially, number of abilities is 100% pointless to compare, and you can't use that to discuss whether something is more developed or not.
Forging runes are, essentially, 1 ability since you use them all at the same time.
You also count things like Language multiple times when it's pretty much one thing (having the same ability listed multiple times does not make it more developed IMO), and I also feel like Forging's runes are much the same; sure they are multiple abilities, but they could just as easily be one ability that is etched on something and provides all the enhancements, much like artifact runes currently do.
Essentially, number of abilities is 100% pointless to compare, and you can't use that to discuss whether something is more developed or not.
Forging runes are, essentially, 1 ability since you use them all at the same time.
Yeah, my process was to use the info posted on Xiel Talnara's site, review each skill, and omit every skill that led to the development of an actual trade product; hence the repeat in languages and inclusion of extract/gemcut. I wouldn't say that more skills = more developed.. was thinking along the lines of abilities that supported guild skills or racial abilities like alcohol tolerance over trade production.
QUOTE (Deschain @ Jan 19 2011, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why are you calling tailoring embroidery?
But anyway, tailors also get proofs.
But anyway, tailors also get proofs.
Oops. Fixed tailoring/embroidery.
Also omitted enchantment great robes on the basis that it increased the value of an actual trade product.
QUOTE (rika @ Jan 19 2011, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think you can really compare trade skills without considering what kind of things they can make.
Of course you can. This isn't about economy, but how trade skills support race/guild combinations (and well, provide a character with RP flavor/utility). Often times I am asked (in my guild administrative role) what trades best support a combat character, which is a very different question than what trades have the best potential for profit.
QUOTE (Aerotan @ Jan 19 2011, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It might be interesting to compare the various trade items as well, like the shears, the hammer(s), and the gloves(es).
Agreed!
Janalon2011-01-20 00:26:53
QUOTE (Llandros @ Jan 19 2011, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You included the etchings from cosmic and elemental enchanting but not the etchings in tinkering. I don't know if that was intentional or an overisght but they are comprable in my opinion.
Oversight. Fixed now.
Lendren2011-01-20 00:29:48
FightingRings are definitely things you can make and sell, as much as the things you left out of Artisan.
Everiine2011-01-20 00:33:38
Not that non-sellable things in a trade skill aren't useful, but they are trade skills. I'm confused about what argument you are trying to make by comparing that non-trade abilities of trade skills. 
Diamondais2011-01-20 00:44:56
Kind of confused what you're asking as well.
A good majority of the items you have omitted have more use than for sale and combat.
A good majority of the items you have omitted have more use than for sale and combat.
Janalon2011-01-20 01:41:57
QUOTE (diamondais @ Jan 19 2011, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kind of confused what you're asking as well.
A good majority of the items you have omitted have more use than for sale and combat.
A good majority of the items you have omitted have more use than for sale and combat.
Nope. There was nothing that I was outright asking. Just wanted a glimpse at trade skills minus the economics. Not even an argument to be made. As I said in the opening... this whole thread was to satisfy my curiosity how trade skills support a character outside the production of trade items.
