If you don't like the -game- part, there's a bunch of MUSHes out there where you'll never have to see a single ounce of combat if you don't want to.

IRE is universally acclaimed for its rich and complex combat, its large scale conflict and the beautiful merging of powerful mechanics, amazing quests and a rich and detailed world to enjoy. The gaming aspects of Lusternia make the RP that happens here so much more meaningful and enjoyable to a wider audience than merely the individuals who play for social reasons.

If you don't like the roleplaying part, there are plenty of games out there where you'll never have to see a single ounce of roleplaying if you don't want to.

I love the roleplaying part. It's why I despise this idea fundamentally. It diminishes the meaningfulness of the roleplay and makes it a pale cardboard cutout of what it currently is.

There are people who firmly believe exactly the opposite. Or, at least, that having to bend to the organization whims and use our shrines as weapons (and the other mechanical changes lately) simply make as a militant arm of the parent org anyway, stifling many paths of RP. Shrines are not treated as gifts from a god, but simple as weapons of war to which everyone is entitled.

Now we're on a point I can entirely agree with. Things like shrines should remain instruments of the faithful. While the gods are tied tightly to their cities, and shrines are weapons of warfare, they should remain tools of holy war, sacred sites, and blessings to the faithful, rather than secular military assets. However, that's something that needs to be addressed on an -RP- level. More purely religious conflict, divorced from the secular, would be awesome. Gods do not pay homage to the cities they lay claim to, instead the opposite is true. Why then should any order consider it's city a 'parent' org. Let the city offer up sacrifices to their gods, and serve in congregation, if they wish to receive blessings that should be the domain of the true believers.

However, this is just my opinion of how things would be. Ultimately it's up to the gods, and their respective orders.

Yes, that most basic description unites Lusternia, the Olympics, pong under the same title, congratulations.

Yet Lusternia is a game with a high focus on the dramatic elements. It is the combination of the dramatic and formal elements that make lusternia what it is. The formal elements give us the ability to play a game, while the dramatic provides a context and meaning, if you wish to ignore the importance of the dramatic elements to a game such as Lusternia then you ignore most of the game.

Yes, the high standards are what draw players to the Iron Realms. But it is both in the dramatic AND the formal, not one alone.

Again, a point I strongly agree with. Each strengthens the meaningfulness and depth of the other. The formal gives significance and meaningfulness to the dramatic. The dramatic lends complexity and depth to the formal. So let's not go advocating cutting off the nose to spite the face over sour apples for not having as many active divine as the Joneses, 'kay?

You misunderstand.

I was pointing that, using quite strong language, you were denouncing anything in the game that wasn't combat, because it was makebelieve.

I was pointing out that Lusternia is a game. Everything about it is escapist makebelieve.

Yeah... it's not up to the Gods. There have been issues in the past where Serenwilde did not want any part of some war that they would have been involved in through Charune and I believe the Admin have commented on their need to adapt to how the players are going.

There can't be any purely religious war as everyone and thing is tied to an org and the city or commune will always be the parent org because if they don't like the god, then they retain every right to dump them out on their rears. Things like sacred sites have been hard coded rather than roleplayed. The gods of the other games do not exist here, no offense, but it's true.

Shrines are not markers of some holy war, they are the markings of org turf and the issue is that there will never be any incentive to treat them otherwise because everything about Lusternia reinforces city/commune at the highest point of importance. Orders could be more important without affinity and the possibility of rouges, but this will never happen in Lusternia and so city/commune will always come first.

Considering previous moves such as Order Affinity and how Order Wars (yes, omg, we have something like that) aren't actually exclusive to just the members of the participating Orders, I'd say the Administration has made it pretty clear that Orders are tied to the pantheon of the city or commune they're in. Hence the reason why shrines are the "markings of org turf", and why war shrines play such an important role in fighting.

And, considering it's the Administration that runs this game, I'd say they're entitled to do what they wish with it. If you don't like where the game is going, then by golly gee look to new horizons, which you're fully capable of doing.

Sure, we're free to abandon the characters we've spent years playing, building up tens of thousands of credits, a million lines of script code, etc, because one org has a few massive, active orders and another has next to nothing.

I don't think it's wrong to ask for change, but that change is not likely to happen, and we realistically all know that, which is what really kinda sucks.

Yes, war shrines are a pain. Yes, any side can use them. No, we're not all on equal footing because of this.

And, when your one active Divine mandates that you're not to associate with your best ally, how are you supposed to not resent him for that?

Out of curiousity, what would you have them do? Force a new admin into a Divine shell they don't want?

This is why I say that we know the changes to balance out this sort of thing will never happen. It's unrealistic to expect changes like that on an administrative level. Other things could perhaps be tried, like toning down order/shrine powers, limiting the number of avatars per order (not based on essence), limiting the size of an order realm, etc. We've got caps on many things, but there are no real caps on orders.

Orders and the related benefits are probably intended to be self regulated, but at the same time is understandably fun for them to play with and work on compared to less personal projects.

I can't remember, can only one war shrine in an area be activated at a time? Might be a suggestion if it's not already like that. If so, ignore me.

Well, a god can only have one of each type of shrine in an area. But I don't think there have been any limiters on having war shrines for different gods going in the same area. Though I feel there will be complaints around competing rather than complimentary shrines.

That is actually an interresting question. I can think of arguments pro and contra and I can't decide what side I would eventually pick.

As to the topic, an alternate method would be to allow divine to invest shrine powers in to protectors and security. If a divine's activity is a problem they could always temporarily be controlled by non volunteer admins.

It seems simpler because the main infrastructure is already in place. Though as we know things that seem simple to add can be extremely difficult in rapture.

Whoa, I like Eventru's hilariously huge realm, even if it is a to navigate at times, and those priestesses tend to be spammy in large numbers.

I've been on facebook too lomg. I was looking for the like button.

Yes, and he will probably jump on to defend his realm but tbh every time its mentioned I kinda think of what else could have been done instead, though I suppose some of that is rooted in the division between orgs.