I'm against the idea. Honours lines are entirely too variable in speed and difficulty to merit any flat reward, and quest specific rewards become entirely too complicated very quickly. Apart from just basing it on difficulty, which is subjective, you'd also have to base it relative to how correct it is for a member of a family associated with x org or x god to be doing that quest in the first place, and then there are arguments that fall entirely outside of the norm. I think this is the only reason I can actually support the epic quest being a big honor-giver... because it's the only instance where questing is so cut and dry, and can feasibly be included at all.

How about the Aetherbubble Epic?

Actually I'd considered honor lines and went back and forth on them, eventually tossing them out of the design for the time being. Today we're not able to (easily) differentiate between an 'appropriate' honours line and an inappropriate one. While I could go through the entire list of honours and say "Okay, this should give honour if celest, this should give dishonour, this should...", the code would need to be updated every time there's a new honours line added to the game (not feasible).

Maybe someday that will change, but for now, we'll just need to settle for the city-aligned epic quests.

(To the aetherspace epic quest, maybe, but I'm not really sure how it'd settle so to speak, for whom you help for gains)

Kephera house -> Kephera epic and Illithoid house -> Illithoid epic?

Oh man, I forgot about eh Undervault epics. I feel like those are pretty cut-and-dry on how they'd help or hurt the family if the House is aligned.

I am tempted to give honour gains to celest/hallifax/serenwilde for completing the Kephera epic (and visa-versa for illithoid and the others), with a small bonus if it's a house with that race as their orientation.

But I'm not really sure if I want to start making exceptions and such.

When Talnara hits that I'll just say that Eithne had decaplets.

EDIT: Or I guess had somebody marry in then had nonuplets.

Well, you are furrikin. And she could be a bunnikin... (By 'she' I mean 'any random Talnara')

Thank you for considering it! You guys have been super open to reviewing things about this system since the release of it and I really appreciate the willingness of the admin team to keep working at this

An idea for honor gains, Cultural Houses (or maybe everyone, and they get a bonus) should get a small amount of honor for designs approved.

I can't for the life of me think of a way to do it in code, but I sure wish there was a way for there to be a house type focused on merchantry, since history is so full of great houses who made their fame in running business empires, and since merchantry is such a large part of Lusternia. There just isn't a point in the game you could hook into to award honor for it, that wasn't super-exploitable, or if there is, I can't think of it.

This is a pretty bad idea for a few reasons: but family bankaccount that gives a small bonus when over a certain amount? Or based on activity somehow. It would be so absurdly abuse-able, but non-org bankaccounts need some reason for existence!

Edit: I was referring to my statement as being a bad idea, not yours, Lendren! I realized right after posting that it might have been unclear.

Could have them get honour from doing commodity quests, and passive gain from owning shops.

Also, does the inactivity loss tic at a given time each day, or is it on a timer that resets whenever there's an active honor gain?

wait, can Lesser houses take pledges from other lesser houses and use the 1/4th boost to become Great houses by achieving the membership through that method?

Can families achieve lesser house status through the same means? Or pledge to lesser or great houses?

Maybe I'm confused, but wouldn't that sorta thing solve the issues with Hallifax's small family sizes and such? As well as allowing families to freely participate in the system without metagaming just to reach the sizes needed to enjoy participating in the now much larger aspect of gameplay?

Yes.


No.

I say no to honour quests just because it would add to pain of epic quests not counting retroactively.

I think the family system has great potential to become something great. I strongly feel that such a system should not be coded, bug-fixed and then set in stone for the rest of eternity. It should be continually updated and re-balanced as per combat balance. It will be a looong looong loooooong road, but if the coding team can take 1 hour out of every rl month to take one honour quest and see if it should give any honour, and then add it to the family code, it would be great. Updating code once a month is hardly unreasonable. People asking for retroactive recognition would be a pain in the ass, of course, but that doesn't excuse not implementing what would continually add another dimension of immersion into the game, especially since it can be resolved by making honour quests give only a small family honour boost.

Basically, what I'm saying is, the admin should aim to creating a family system where it is realistic and fun to gain honour, for even those little newbies, who can't actually be expected to bash 4 rounds of gorgogs in a day. (Roughly what it takes to earn a hunting recognition, based on my observations) Honour quests are good for this. Say, a newton completion gives 10 family honour. Whee, what a pittance, but the newbie will go, "Wow, look at this shizzle. I made a god damn difference! Let me go find another honour quest to do!" Harder, longer quests (the admin can take as long as they want to slowly decide what constitutes these subjective criteria) could give more, like 50, 100 honour. Quests that do align with the house's city/commune will give additional honour (+10%?) if they are done while the house is pledged or bannered to one.

This should not be limited to honour quests. The family system should be intertwinned with all tiers of gameplay with varying levels of benefits, just for the sake of immersion. It'll be a long project to start approving honour quests to give honour to families, but the family is a long-term aspect of the game, as has been said already. Eventually, maybe 5 rl years down the road, we'll run out of honour quests to approve, and then the admin can think of something else to add to the family system while keeping it balanced. In the mean time, making things better one step at a time is the least we can do, and I strongly urge the admin to consider that. Slot it into your envoy schedule or something. Add an extra HONOUR REPORT for the admin only where you guys thrash out whether it should be added to the family honour code, and if so, how much honour it should give, etc.

Epic honours are pretty cut and dry, I think, so you can probably bulk approve all of them to give honour. How much is debateable - the epics aren't stuff that a newbie can just waltz around, and complete it with 15 minutes of thinking.

Edit:

Thought about it some more, and came up with a few other good reasons for implementing this. This encourages honour quests to become more than just trophies that people collect and put on display. Newbies who want to make a difference can, and some will, seek out those who have completed the quest before to ask for help. Magical RP commences! Of course, this is an idealistic situation where the great honour questers, (Ixion, Xenthos) don't just kill the newbie outright for daring to ask them for help. But the potential is there!

Imagine, a d'Murani nublet asking the great Ixion about how to complete so-and-so task, and the great man stares down the poor little pony and demands a favour for the Kalas house in return, to be kept in trust until one day when he comes to collect... perhaps it'll be his firstborn, to be a consort to one of Ixion's own breed? Perhaps it'll be a ritual death by behead some time in the near future during a Kalas wedding? Or perhaps just 100 gold tribute when Ixion comes back after a century-long slumber to find out all his stuff decayed.

What can I say? I'm good at this.

I'm sorry, but I really don't put much stock into this sort of argument. It was made earlier on envoys over the gain of Epic Quests, "It should be lower because I didn't get honour for mine" or some variation thereof. It's simply not a good way to approach the design of any system, sorry.

To Lerad, I'm not necessarily in disagreement. However, I think everyone involved would much prefer the honour system be something that requires minimal tweaking over time - and every time we add an honours quest isn't really 'minimal'. I'd far prefer a different approach, but then it becomes something that isn't my call to make, but instead Estarra's. It's something we'll discuss, but for the time being all I can offer is that honours quests aren't really on the table in the over-arching system's current form.

I'm with Rika, other epics and honours make no sense. Honours quests are personal rewards, period and end of story I think. Epic quests outside of org ones (which fits in perfectly with family honour because you can be aligned with a nexus) make no sense because why should a family get a bonus for helping the gnafia/gnomes, or kephera/illithoid? Nexii don't get rewards for them, nor should things tied to nexii. Aetherepics and the UV cycle are racial and personal endeavours.

@Lerad, interesting perhaps but I can do that stuff without it being a family bonus. Plus why would a walking non-decay artifact need gold!