It would be fine if Blood Houses did have another way to lose honour. I think there should actually be more ways of losing honour across the board. It is really easy to avoid any loss curently. While it's particularly true in blood houses, it's true for everyone, really.

Also, Sidd just to clarify, when we lost honor for Krellan's wanton killing it was right when it came out, and we hadn't set blood house yet... but the fact that it did tic so quickly, while people were doing nothing out of the norm (random fight over a shrine on astral, I think), suggested to me that blood house was the best bet, as it would then eliminate the possibility of losses from members' normal activities (fighting in neutral, off prime territory).

There really hasn't been a lot of fighting in that neurtal, off-prime territory of late. I think we might wait for that to flare up more again and see how non-blood families hold up with honour over time before you draw that conclusion. If it tics frequently enough to make people aversive to defending their own shrines on astral, etc., I think that's penalty plenty.

Raising Marani seems to not have given family honour while opening the Gorgog rift did, bug or intended? *peers at the admins* Or should I bug report this stuff ingame?

Always.

You should only get honour for gaining an epic item, and nothing else, quest-wise. If that's occurring, bug it.

It's easy to avoid losing honour, for Honour houses, if you aren't killing anyone. I lost honour after getting a few kills. Nothing extreme. I haven't even been raiding that much.

I agree that Blood houses should lose honor for dying. I think it would be a mechanic that would help balance the advantages of the house and make sense in a rp perspective since someone who dies often really doesn't strike much fear into a population - they're easy to get rid of. Something along every 5 deaths equals a loss in house honor would work out pretty well, I think.

I think it's an alright idea, though my thought would be more along the lines of:

If you kill a demigod, you get +100 points (1000 = +100 honour). If you are a demigod and you die, you get -100 points (-1000 = -100 honour).

My concern with that would be 'Oh, let's just start jumping Blood members to make them lose honour', though.

I think that's a better way mechanically to describe what is going on but it should probably apply to all honor gains/losses related to pk instead of just for the "wanton killing" aspect then. As far as jumping people in blood houses for honor loss, I think that might actually be an interesting downside to playing a blood house as if your family is so focused on spreading terror across the lands (in an rp standpoint), everyone should be out to get rid of you.

Bloodhouses already have incentive to jump noncombatants for honour.

Though one should probably look for more ways to lose honours first. For example Houses of Letters could lose honour for having a book successfully critiqued (even though that happens pretty much never).

While I don't necessarily disagree, I'm a little concerned with Blood Houses having non-PvP members being jumped a lot for 'easy honour loss'. I don't know, I'll have to think about it, decide my opinion on the matter and then talk to Est.

Feel free (anyone) to contribute opinions for/against!

@Kiradawea, I'm not overly fond of creating a system with a lot of 'if you do x you lose y honour' - at least, I certainly would prefer means to lose honour be minimal and no more than what is logical (Family members quitting cities, etc). Your example falls into that category, of course (and the same with cultural and literary submission critiques), but I thought it prudent to comment on the suggestion itself.

If honor related losses (and gains) from pking only happened while off-prime, revolts, or similarly it would at least be in the "opt-in" areas that are already designed/expected that one can be jumped in at anytime. Or the honor losses could apply only to deaths in enemy territory.

Eh, that's not really entirely necessary since in non-enemy prime territories the Avenger mechanic already limits how often someone can be jumped without eating a double death themselves. Though I suppose honor loss can be accrued if someone dies an Avenger vengeance death (as if it was a normal pk death).

True, I don't think its really needed to add additional restrains beyond dying as a blood family member gives honor loss. But just providing some alternative ideas if its felt non-coms getting jumped for being in a blood family is too much.

Though personally I think it ought to cut both ways equally if there's going to be gains for killing.

Additionally, I don't really have anything invested in the family system, not in a great house or banner house and don't really care to mass-adopt people so doubt I will. So its not like the changes would really affect me one way or another.

Seems like the people who would do this would also be from Blood Houses - and thus would probably be doing it anyway, if they were so inclined... otherwise, they would be hurting themselves in equal measure. It might come into play more in situations where the numbers for most honorable family are close, or if a blood family is closing in on a particular milestone - but in these situations it would probably be fun to heighten the drama.

A single person dying 10 times in pvp would take a while to accumulate, even including deaths during the various world games. Maybe if it were cumulative for all family members?

I think I was expecting to see more up and down in the system, really - though from what you say above, that seems to not be your intention. My concern is that you've stated that there is a cap to honor at some point. Even if it is 200k, well, we're a week in, and we have families at 12-14% of that already - it's only a matter of time before we get honour totals at the upper bound, and there they'll stay indefinitely.

So it looks like prestige wins are 30k honor? My last count put Shevat getting 36240 gain from the win, including any month change passives.

Edit: Also, it seems the dropoffs for the varying house names were changed. Like for blood, Callous, Ruthless, etc.

We actually got two wins, but Irillia's play hasn't been announced yet.

Did it show up in logs aleady?

it did, and our stage has it marked as the winner too.

Yeah, I made a few changes tonight - when we loaded there were some unrelated bugs with beasts, so the announce post got overlooked.

More or less, honour floor's been moved to 0 (instead of 10k), the disgraced threshold was moved to 1k and all the levels were moved up a fair amount from there on.

Also updated the POLITICS FAMILIES output to be cleaner.

Families should now gain honour from order heads, also, and honour decay is back in.

I posted the numbers for the prestige/play wins in the other thread where it came up.