Raising the stakes on org betrayal is a bad thing. I won't lie, from an ooc perspective, pretty much the only reason that Malarious got into Glomdoring was to take MHF away from Mag (and we see how well that worked out - thanks, bugs). I see that as an unfortunate necessity given the mechanics, and seriously wish that it didn't have to come to that. I wouldn't like to see that degree of backstabbery become more commonplace. I don't think that enemies should be allowed to benefit from the harm that established people are able to do to their orgs by leaving.

I do agree that it would be better, overall, if there were more incidental means of losing honour, or perhaps challenging other houses with honour at stake, but it's pretty difficult to come up with ways that are both fair and quantifiable.

I know its a thin line to walk (I mean, who doesn't have a d'Murani alt), but I also can't think of too many other possibilities for you to lose honor. That's why I also suggested that perhaps the person should hold city/guild rank or perhaps have a certain high voteweight and/or powerbase in the city. I also think Malarious was an extreme example and won't really comment on it, but he isn't the only one that has left (Lothringen and Liok for Kalas). Perhaps there are better ideas to prevent a gaming of the system, but right now the system could be gamed anyways.

I liked the idea of if you are at honour cap, your honour increases decrease in value, but your losses in honour stay the same.

I still don't see why we're sticking to a system where honour never decays (unless you do something specifically to cause it. I'd much rather have a system where it rewards constant work but doesn't cause an insurmountable lead, i.e. a system where it counts the last year or so on a rolling basis.

So ruling council seat was changed? Before it required 150k honor, so now it requires top honor in an org?

Iirc, it's 150k minimum. If multiple families are over 150k, then the highest gets it.

Wasn't it on a limit of 1 per org? This way I guess means more change up.

I don't see why we're stickng to a system where families are competetive.

Failing to defend your city is an incredibly lame honour loss mechanic. I'd be hard pressing to think of something more annoying than that. Also, I'm not sure why killing another family member would cause honour loss, sometimes people have violent cultures.

Nothing's changed - it's always been this way.

Because that is The Vision ™. It will not change no matter how much we complain about it.

It's an Avenger?

Indeed - the entire purpose of the system was to be competitive, and that's not going to change.

It's like complaining the purpose of combat is to kill players!

In my original suggestion, I suggested possibly for it to be only for Blood houses and Honour houses, as that family is more aligned to do the duty of defending the city/commune. And, I think a family infighting would look terrible from other people's perspective, but thats just me.

I can see use of it in the case of having members outside of the proper org, or as a way of testing members strength and ability to survive in Blood Houses at least.

How about honour loss for raiding in the first place? It's not very "honourable" to stomp on people who clearly can't fight as well as you daily.

Since everyone seems to have their panties in a wad, a little explanation of a suggestion.

My suggestion was you only lose honour every tic that your city/commune shield is down, and for it to possibly only apply to Blood or Honour houses, as those are the 'combat' houses. It was a suggestion, not trying to force any non-PKers into PKing or combat, but if you do choose a combat house, you should have to go defend your city.

It still seems to be 150k, Talnaras have top in Serenwilde at 144k and still can't do it (I just checked.)

I feel like I'm speaking french.

Yes. I know.

At the end of June, it required 150k honour to get a seat, and only one family can have the seat (the most honourable family in a given org).

This morning, when I woke up, it required 150k honour to get a seat, and only one family can have the seat (the most honourable family in a given org).

Is the Most Honourable Family thing going to get fixed at some point? I saw the post about family coffers breaking a tie but that shouldn't have affected Ysav'rai from being the top at this moment.

From what I recall, here's the progression

Kalas got 200k first, they got MHF
Ysav'rai got it 2nd
Malarious left Kalas, honour lost, Ysav'rai is now MHF
Kalas got back to 200k, retook MHF from bug
D'murani got to 200k, took MHF (bug)
there's been honour loss in both D'murani and Kalas since then and Ysav'rai has remained at 200k yet, we've never retaken MHF status

So as far as I'm aware, Ysav'rai should currently be MHF, or is that incorrect?

Okay, here is how it was explained to me that it should work...

Family A is the first to reach 200k (cap) - takes MHF.
Family B reaches 200k - nothing happens.
Family A loses honour for any reason - family B takes MHF.
Family C reaches 200k - nothing happens.
Family B loses honour for any reason - Family A and Family C's bankaccounts are compared, and whoever has the most is awarded MHF, where they stay, until they lose honour for any reason.

This is obviously not what has happened - in this case, family C (d'Murani) reached 200k and automatically got MHF. So either my understanding is wrong, or there is still a bug somewhere.

Possibly every time a family reaches 200k, there's a the comparison of bankaccounts among all families at the cap, with MHF awarded based on that -- This could do with confirmation. If this is the case it is a stupid way to do things. It basically would mean that people have to funnel huge amounts of gold into their family bankaccounts and not only keep it there forever, but constantly add more. If this is NOT the case, then I don't understand why Ysav'rai is not MHF.

Edit to add... actually it doesn't seem like it does re-evaluate whenever anyone hits the cap, or it's not doing this any more, as we had padded our familyaccount pretty well last night before Kalas got back to 200k... and there was no change when they did. So unless d'Murani has a truly obscene amount of gold stored up, that suspicion is probably unfounded.